Middle class Singaporean no more.....Sigh

[sbfblack]

Bro your lifestyle too high and Atas le... Time to look at these spendings are they a need or want.

My wife plus me not even 10k we live comfortably...

[kuasimi]

Originally Posted by kiko

Bro : I think there are 2 option for you.

1) Sell off the car, if your job does not require cars , why need it. I had seen Singaporeans travel with their kids and wife taking bus and MRT .

2) If you have extra money , why not go upgrade , see yourself in future be more employable, and salary increase when you have a extra certificates.

Perhaps, like what the other bro say if you can cut down on restaurants is better to do so. I had seen almost every weekends , Singaporeans spending in restaurants like those in Long Beach , Sushi Teh . Almost every weekends is full house for Japanese restaurants and seafood.

Thanks

Even if every Singaporean bite bullets to adjust to the high cost of living, the increase in the cost of living will not go away. If every Singaporean need to live like a Third World standard of living to suit poor government policies and survive, then what for still vote for PAP? What for need to work hard ? What for need education ? We work hard to feed the most expensive Ministers and Civil Service in the world?

[kuasimi]

Originally Posted by super_marvel

Sometimes, I think that voting for pap doesn't really improve my life either... Yes, country will be richer. But I don't.

PAP Old Guards were good but dead or retired. But New PAP is greedy and self-serving. New PAP is basically relying on stories and glories of PAP Old Guards to stay relevant. New PAP lack competence compare to PAP Old Guards.

[Mora1Epitome]

Once it was for the people. Now it is for themselves

[leakypipes]

Originally Posted by MoJoe313

Bro, $5-$7k savings a month?! Zhun bo? Can detail down your monthly expenses? Share how you do it?

All figures shown below are monthly

Nett combined household income: 14k

Contribution to parents/siblings: 1.5- 2k

Petrol: 360

Childcare for 2 kids: 1k (estimate - and also this is paid out of CDA account)

Monthly credit card bill : 3-4k - this covers all external dining, including daily lunch except for when we eat at kpt/hawker centre; any clothes/accessories/any other purchase.

Cash spending: up to 1k. Includes bonking, cigarettes, and some alcohol. other alcohol covered by credit card.

Insurance policies: 700

Total monthly expenditure: 6.9k-9k.

Savings: 5k-7.1k.

Plus, this figure doesn't include bonuses. This is just operating on a monthly basis.

How we keep spending down? Some examples: every piece of furniture in my house is about 4 years old - since i moved into this place. some are older cos inherit from other people. For our two kids, we have not had to spend much on clothes because we get hand me downs and some brand new clothes from family, friends and colleagues. My electric shaver is 8 years old. Birthday gift from when i was dating my wife. I don't have cable tv - because we don't really have time to watch with work and 2 kids. We relax with free to air tv, downloads and buy cheap dvds from online. my teh kor and my socks and shoes dont get replaced until really jialat. My car is a third hand originally from 2007. purchased in 2012. planning to drive until scrap. after that see market how. probably go for another second hand. pay cash and avoid loan.

The operating principle for any purchase is what is the cheapest way we can get it. I am lucky because my wife does not see a need to buy the latest fashions. and she normally don't buy clothes unless on sale. same with me. we both grew up in poor families. so we understand the value of every dollar. and we know what matters in our lives.

what are we doing with all that savings? well, we are investing in our children's future, and our own retirement. the whole goal is not to rely on cpf minimum sum alone. we are both very grateful that we are not quite poor anymore, and we appreciate every cent we make.

also, by living simply, we hope to teach the girls a good example. and teach them to be grateful for what they have.

anyway bro, i dont really mean to lecture you. it is your life, and your choice how to live it. but if you are not happy about something, you should ask yourself what you really want, and what you need to do to get there. you can blame the environment all you want, but if tomorrow you move to another country, will your life really be better? if you believe that is the solution, you should work towards making it happen.

[leakypipes]

Originally Posted by Lookforhope

I think he earn $12000 per month

not wrong eh bro. combined household income monthly is about s$14k

[leakypipes]

Originally Posted by MoJoe313

I also shifted near my in laws. Same block. To save on maid. After a few years, they tired. Almost 80 y.o.. Look after 10+ grandchildren already. They surrender. Same for my parents. Now it's the other way round. My maid exists to help them. Maybe your in laws are still young......and you sound younger. You haven't kena any medical bills from them yet I suppose?

i took out insurance for my father about 5 years ago. one shield plan plus another plan to cover cash component. shield plan paid for out of my medisave. the other plan i pay cash.

about 3 years ago, he fell sick. went hospital and stay 1 week plus. we paid nothing. insurance cover all. nowadays, got some costs arising from his treatment. but manageable. touchwood.

granted, my mother in law still young. my father in law... well the less said the better... my dad not q young but not ancient.

[kiko]

I also surprised bros talking about Politics now.. No choice Singapore high rising cost. Need to plan for the future, Retiring age become 55 to 65 .

[kuasimi]

Originally Posted by kiko

I also surprised bros talking about Politics now.. No choice Singapore high rising cost. Need to plan for the future, Retiring age become 55 to 65 .

Like it or not, it is unavoidable politics affect us everyday. We are part of politics. All citizens consume policies from government that will affect their daily life. The day you were born, you consume government's health policy.

[MoJoe313]

Originally Posted by leakypipes

All figures shown below are monthly

Nett combined household income: 14k

Contribution to parents/siblings: 1.5- 2k

Petrol: 360

Childcare for 2 kids: 1k (estimate - and also this is paid out of CDA account)

Monthly credit card bill : 3-4k - this covers all external dining, including daily lunch except for when we eat at kpt/hawker centre; any clothes/accessories/any other purchase.

Cash spending: up to 1k. Includes bonking, cigarettes, and some alcohol. other alcohol covered by credit card.

Insurance policies: 700

Total monthly expenditure: 6.9k-9k.

Savings: 5k-7.1k.

Plus, this figure doesn't include bonuses. This is just operating on a monthly basis.

How we keep spending down? Some examples: every piece of furniture in my house is about 4 years old - since i moved into this place. some are older cos inherit from other people. For our two kids, we have not had to spend much on clothes because we get hand me downs and some brand new clothes from family, friends and colleagues. My electric shaver is 8 years old. Birthday gift from when i was dating my wife. I don't have cable tv - because we don't really have time to watch with work and 2 kids. We relax with free to air tv, downloads and buy cheap dvds from online. my teh kor and my socks and shoes dont get replaced until really jialat. My car is a third hand originally from 2007. purchased in 2012. planning to drive until scrap. after that see market how. probably go for another second hand. pay cash and avoid loan.

The operating principle for any purchase is what is the cheapest way we can get it. I am lucky because my wife does not see a need to buy the latest fashions. and she normally don't buy clothes unless on sale. same with me. we both grew up in poor families. so we understand the value of every dollar. and we know what matters in our lives.

what are we doing with all that savings? well, we are investing in our children's future, and our own retirement. the whole goal is not to rely on cpf minimum sum alone. we are both very grateful that we are not quite poor anymore, and we appreciate every cent we make.

also, by living simply, we hope to teach the girls a good example. and teach them to be grateful for what they have.

anyway bro, i dont really mean to lecture you. it is your life, and your choice how to live it. but if you are not happy about something, you should ask yourself what you really want, and what you need to do to get there. you can blame the environment all you want, but if tomorrow you move to another country, will your life really be better? if you believe that is the solution, you should work towards making it happen.

Bro,
Here is how we stack up.

Nett combined household income: More than yours

Contribution to parents/siblings: About same

Petrol: Same. You no road tax? Insurance? Servicing?

Childcare for 2 kids: No wonder. Your kids are young.

Monthly credit card bill : I can't see your breakdown of $3-4k. Mine is slightly more.

Cash spending: I quit smoking, partying, binge drinking years ago. Now drink at home.

Insurance policies: about same

Total monthly expenditure: More than yours.

Savings: Little from monthly income recently. I do have sufficient past reserves.

Strange that your wife has no make up or beauty care costs.

My modus operandi is to get free clothings for my kids too. Things, if not broken are repaired and re-used. Thrift is key in everything. This is why I don't even have that occasional chilli crab (at a non air con kopi tiam).

Summary:
1. Your kids are young. As they get older, imho their expenses grow. By a lot. I don't know what you mean by "investing in their future". If it is not a cliche or an excuse to buy another condo, then surely they will need tuition soon.

Some argue tuition is a luxury. I beg to differ. Chinese tuition is a must imho. No chinese, T scores get dragged down. Languages have double weightages at PSLE.

Maths tuition a must too if you are serious about their future. Trust me, you won't know how to teach Heuristics. It is very complicated. When your child asks you 2 more times, you will head to MindStretcher.

I never had tuition all my life. But times are different. Our schools now boast how smart our children are. They never considered HOW each did it behind the scene.

Then the usual school bus fees, recess allowance, school excursions, books. Now multiply that by 3 for me.

2. It appears your parents or in laws do not stay with you. Imho, you are leeching off a hidden cost by making them take care of your kids. I don't. And, its not as though I can choose a cheaper option.

My parents stay with me. I have to provide food. And a helper to look after them and the kids. So I have a monthly food and maid cost.

The above two should account for the main difference in our costs. I don't splurge on myself or wife. Its all for the kids and parents. When my kids were younger and my parents not staying with me, I too could save. Now, no more.

(I am sure some stupid idiot is going to "advise" me not to be ungrateful but seriously use your friggin head. If I am ungrateful, they won't be taken care of....with the services of even a maid thrown in. Duh!)

Recently, I am struck with some health issues. Not uncommon when one is nearing 50. I can chiong all the way when I was in my late 30s like you (if I am guessing your age right). But at my age now, I start to ask questions.

Maybe you will ask the same questions many years later. Or maybe I did get my budgeting wrong.

[kuasimi]

[geylangbonker]

Singaporeans spending power is rather high as time passes by,
let me quote an example...if u earn an average income of $2000/- let say.
you can calculate your daily expenses by dividing your monthly salary after CPF deduction is only left with $1600/- per month for you to last....right?


Okay....$1600/20 days(5 days work week) based on daily calculations is $80/- per day for daily expenditure.

If let say an sillyporean daily meals is about $20/- per day for meals , if you drive a car , petrol is about $15/- per day to and fro from work , you already saved+ marlboro cigarettes...$12.80xx...you are left with $32.20/-

keep aside the $32.20 for personal savings...so per month you will have$644/- not for daily needs..


i am quoting based on a low wage worker pay , so u still have a sum for monthly savings ....


as the years passed by , i wonder how spore will become one day as prices keeps on increasing plus the lust-fulness of singaporean men patronising prostitutes....


Whether you are a bachelor, divorcee or married men, the only way to let money grow is to bet on TOTO...HORSE PUNTING AND CASINOES..BUT on a rarely basis...luck is like a taking lift,,,sometimes up and will go down again...

If one of you strike 1st prize toto 1 millions or more....remember to invest in property and migrate to overseas if you still have a sum of money and stay in low standard countries like thailand or vietnam.....set a small business and marry a foreign wife , coz sinkie women will never go through pains and woes with you when you gone poor one day...

[leakypipes]

Originally Posted by MoJoe313

Bro,
Here is how we stack up.

Nett combined household income: More than yours

Contribution to parents/siblings: About same

Petrol: Same. You no road tax? Insurance? Servicing?

Childcare for 2 kids: No wonder. Your kids are young.

Monthly credit card bill : I can't see your breakdown of $3-4k. Mine is slightly more.

Cash spending: I quit smoking, partying, binge drinking years ago. Now drink at home.

Insurance policies: about same

Total monthly expenditure: More than yours.

Savings: Little from monthly income recently. I do have sufficient past reserves.

Strange that your wife has no make up or beauty care costs.

My modus operandi is to get free clothings for my kids too. Things, if not broken are repaired and re-used. Thrift is key in everything. This is why I don't even have that occasional chilli crab (at a non air con kopi tiam).

Summary:
1. Your kids are young. As they get older, imho their expenses grow. By a lot. I don't know what you mean by "investing in their future". If it is not a cliche or an excuse to buy another condo, then surely they will need tuition soon.

Some argue tuition is a luxury. I beg to differ. Chinese tuition is a must imho. No chinese, T scores get dragged down. Languages have double weightages at PSLE.

Maths tuition a must too if you are serious about their future. Trust me, you won't know how to teach Heuristics. It is very complicated. When your child asks you 2 more times, you will head to MindStretcher.

I never had tuition all my life. But times are different. Our schools now boast how smart our children are. They never considered HOW each did it behind the scene.

Then the usual school bus fees, recess allowance, school excursions, books. Now multiply that by 3 for me.

2. It appears your parents or in laws do not stay with you. Imho, you are leeching off a hidden cost by making them take care of your kids. I don't. And, its not as though I can choose a cheaper option.

My parents stay with me. I have to provide food. And a helper to look after them and the kids. So I have a monthly food and maid cost.

The above two should account for the main difference in our costs. I don't splurge on myself or wife. Its all for the kids and parents. When my kids were younger and my parents not staying with me, I too could save. Now, no more.

(I am sure some stupid idiot is going to "advise" me not to be ungrateful but seriously use your friggin head. If I am ungrateful, they won't be taken care of....with the services of even a maid thrown in. Duh!)

Recently, I am struck with some health issues. Not uncommon when one is nearing 50. I can chiong all the way when I was in my late 30s like you (if I am guessing your age right). But at my age now, I start to ask questions.

Maybe you will ask the same questions many years later. Or maybe I did get my budgeting wrong.

you're not wrong i m younger than u. mid thirties and 10 years work experience.

no beauty care costs because.. there are none. my wife don't spend money on expensive cosmetics. all this sk2/lancome/loreal business, we have no part of it. in the past 12 months she has gone for 2 facials and 1 haircut. true story.

what i mean by investing for their future is that every cent we save is going towards a mixed portfolio of bonds, insurance, investment plans, endowments, mutual funds, etc... to build for their future education..

you're not wrong i am leeching off my in laws. not my father. or my siblings. they leech off me.

re credit card bill - you can breakdown lor... meals...3000 is basically meals during workweek and some weekends, plus the occasional spending on other stuff... which includes road tax, insurance, servicing...

your point about tuition... well... to each his own... it is your choice to spend... i don't share your views on tuition, but i will not judge you for it either...

my observation is that you did not plan for increased number of dependants. which i hve been planning from day one... helps a lot when my immediate family leeches off me the moment i earn any money (even when I was a student)... dont get me wrong, I love them, but they taught me some hard lessons about money....

bro - pls dont get me wrong, i am not criticising your lifestyle... what i am saying is if you are in an unhappy place, you should identify what you need to do to get to your happy place... because you come here kao peh, is not solving your issues.... if you didn't do future planning, you should be glad that you are in singapore instead of elsewhere...

i could have taken my mother's nationality... but now when i look back, i realise that if i had done that, i would have been fucked my whole life, instead of fucking the poor women of that country for a cheap bonk in singapore... =p

PS - since you mention chillicrab a lot of times, in the last 5 years, the number of times i have had chilli crab at a restaurant can count on one hand... my birthday... take my lao peh go eat... and recently take my mother in law go eat... thats abt it....

[Stealthfighter]

topic moved

[MoJoe313]

Originally Posted by leakypipes

you're not wrong i m younger than u. mid thirties and 10 years work experience.

no beauty care costs because.. there are none. my wife don't spend money on expensive cosmetics. all this sk2/lancome/loreal business, we have no part of it. in the past 12 months she has gone for 2 facials and 1 haircut. true story.

what i mean by investing for their future is that every cent we save is going towards a mixed portfolio of bonds, insurance, investment plans, endowments, mutual funds, etc... to build for their future education..

you're not wrong i am leeching off my in laws. not my father. or my siblings. they leech off me.

re credit card bill - you can breakdown lor... meals...3000 is basically meals during workweek and some weekends, plus the occasional spending on other stuff... which includes road tax, insurance, servicing...

your point about tuition... well... to each his own... it is your choice to spend... i don't share your views on tuition, but i will not judge you for it either...

my observation is that you did not plan for increased number of dependants. which i hve been planning from day one... helps a lot when my immediate family leeches off me the moment i earn any money (even when I was a student)... dont get me wrong, I love them, but they taught me some hard lessons about money....

bro - pls dont get me wrong, i am not criticising your lifestyle... what i am saying is if you are in an unhappy place, you should identify what you need to do to get to your happy place... because you come here kao peh, is not solving your issues.... if you didn't do future planning, you should be glad that you are in singapore instead of elsewhere...

i could have taken my mother's nationality... but now when i look back, i realise that if i had done that, i would have been fucked my whole life, instead of fucking the poor women of that country for a cheap bonk in singapore... =p

PS - since you mention chillicrab a lot of times, in the last 5 years, the number of times i have had chilli crab at a restaurant can count on one hand... my birthday... take my lao peh go eat... and recently take my mother in law go eat... thats abt it....

Bro,
I like that your wife is not helping sk2/lancome/loreal grow their empires. Mine is really compassionate. She helps Channel too. And clothes. Its like OMG. With the number she has. She can go 3 years without repeating her clothes. Quarrelled over this too many times. Gave up. She wins. I just have 5 shirts, 3 pants and 1 shoe. We too grew up poor. She is over compensating for what she didn't have. I just accepted it.

You are probably right in that I didn't plan for increased dependents. How is one to react when my parents just showed up at my place broke and homeless. I just couldn't turn them away. The number of kids are also unexpected. So suddenly from a carefree single life, I found myself straddled with a huge family. It does get overwhelming at times. Because of my experience with poverty, I can take pain. But sometimes, it does get to you. That day I started this thread was one such rare day.

So in part, the heavy costs are a result of my decisions. But after numerous cost reviewing exercises, one can't deny it used to be easier for the middle class just years ago. I hope we are still called the Middle Class. It is not as though I cannot survive. But there is not much joy if one has to thrift all the time. It is hardly called Middle Class.

I can understand inflation. It is hyper inflation I can't deal with. QE and low interest rates take the cake. Bad policies increased the Gini coefficient.

1. Auctioning shopping malls land plots to developers directly, put certain essential goods at the mercy of capitalists. Owners try to meet their ROI by increasing rents. NTUC finest, Cold Storage etc pass down the cost to consumers. The game continues next year. Populate this format throughout the country, and this is why we are in this mess. There are fewer low cost wet market landlords to be found. Tell me, when was the last time you found Aeroplane chess, a game we used to play, for sale. It is not as though our kids want higher end toys. Low end toys just can't be found!

Same for food at food courts. The G realized this error by building 2 hawker centres. It recently decided to ramp up to 12. It showed the seriousness of it.

2. I am using the above as one of many policy errors I see happening. Don't want to mention others less I be interpreted as being politically partisan. I am not.

I wonder if we as a country are really richer when all we are trying to do is to purchase the same basket of goods.

It is a known phenomenon that our Gini is one of the highest in the world. There is a diminishing middle class. It is either super rich or poor. You may still be comfortable now. When this trend (or policy) continues, you just get pushed down the ladder one day. Unless you belong to the asset class, not the working man class. Good luck to us all.