Middle class Singaporean no more.....Sigh

[ludwig19]

Think at the end of the day, some will understand your situation and some will not. Guess to me, shit happens. Some families with 10k/mth live comfortably while some with 5k/mth struggle, while vice versa some families struggle on 10k/mth and the 5k/mth families are fine. High income families may hv many medical problems and not as high income families may be relatively healthy. Not trying to say that you are suay or anything like that, guess just got to make do with what we are dealt with.

[Hokkienkia]

Lao hia, wa eh bing pek.

Sim si sia lang zai si bo? Mia zai beh bio hiong hiong tan lo ke! Hee bang tai kay ho seh ho seh.

[Intltuk]

Originally Posted by MoJoe313

I am educated. I studied economics. I understand inflation. 5 years ago, crab was $32 per kg. Today its $65 per kg. It is a 100% increase. It is not called Inflation. It is called Hyper Inflation. Perhaps you haven't lived here since birth so you do not notice.

I used crab as an example. I do not have to eat crab (and act rich). This is Singapore. We are famous for Chilli _____. So its price should be common knowledge. Seriously? Must I explain every detail?

Lolz......have a good discussion with fellow bros.

[MoJoe313]

Originally Posted by Orchinno

Hi TS,

Sorry, it seems like you are trying to get sympathy here but not being totally upfront with your information.

There is something call economy of scale. A two person family fixed cost may be higher than a 7 family fixed cost, example utilities. Excluding the variable components, both families have to pay 30 dollars monthly regardless of number of users. Or conservancy charges which are tied to housing unit and not number of members in the housing.

Let's try to do a cost estimate (without knowing where you live and your expenditure patterns) base on the info you are willing to reveal so far.

Food expense monthly : 800 dollars (This is the number I live by with 1 maid, 3 kids, 2 parents, so my household differs not from yours)
Utilities : 350 dollars
Conservancy charges and parking : 200 dollars (assuming HDB 5 room/exec)
Childcare for 3 kids ? : 2400 dollars (800 per pax at neighbour childcare)
Milk powder for 3 kids ? : 200 dollars (65 per tin, 1 tin 1 month per kid)
Your wife and you daily expense : 400 dollars (10 per lunch for 20 days)
Telecom charges : 150 (mid-tier phone plans, cable TV and internet)
the total so far : 4,700 dollars

Given your stated income of 10K, less the CPF, both of you probably bringing in home 8K.

That leave you disposable income of 3300 dollars.

From there you start to draw down the luxuries :
- petrol and servicing 500 dollars ( 400 petrol, 100 contribute to car maintenance fund)
- eating out 210 per meal (30 dollars per pax) 4 weekends ? : 840 dollars

A honest hardworking couple trying to provide is called gaining sympathy, whereas a philandering bro telling his sexcapades here is worshipped? Haha. Power lah bro. But lets study your numbers.

Your above total is $6,000. My food cost is double yours. Utilities 50% more. But its alright, we count as $6,000.

1. How come you got maid but you don't include her cost. Ok, add it in.
2. Your wife goes to work naked ah? I know this is SBF. But dream on. LoL. Add clothes cost.
3. Her make up and beauty care are important. And expensive. Add in.
4. Your kids live on milk only?! Can exchange? Mine need toys and clothes. Add in.
5. Parents allowance missing. Add in. Don't bother with medical bills. Give you chance.
6. Parents in law allowance missing. Forget this and your wife gives you hell. Add in.
7. Waa. Your home air con no need service? No TV? Rice cooker? Toaster? Hot flask? Add in.
8. $100 car maintenance seem low. No road tax and insurance? Teach me lobang can?
9. Er....you no buy personal insurance ah? Add in.

Ok, how much do you think is left?

Now bro, kindly return the honesty in reviewing my added figures. Lets see who is dishonest? Imho, you never ran a household. Thank you.

[furrybird]

Originally Posted by MoJoe313

Bros,
Don't know if you feel it. I am beginning to feel like I am not even in the middle class in our country any more. Wife and me working. We earn average incomes. Combined >$10k a month. But young kids in school. Expenses super high.

My car is 9 years old. Went looking for cars and even a small korean car cost >$100k. Want to get a bigger flat because kids are growing. But prices are ridiculously high. Last time can afford to eat chilli crab once in a while. Now crab is $65 a kilo. Cannot afford to eat anymore. Durian price also gone crazy. If eat out, little bit here and there also cost $50-$100. The $50 bills in my wallet use very fast....maciam flow out like water.

Getting old. Tired of this impossible rat race. You feeling the pinch too?

Hmm bro, I think I understand what you mean, every family have its problems, I'm staying with parents, and wife and a kid. Can see the expenses going up every year. I'm a very careful guy with finance so I kept records of my money spent daily, after my kid came out, my savings per year got lesser every year especially from 2011.

I think you are not looking for a consul but rather an option to let off some steam. Let's put it this way, I think you are able to manage to cope with ur family finance, however you feel insecure because you may not be able to put aside enough savings or have enough for raining days having these confirm committement monthly.

Life is all about trade off, you spent on your kids, to enjoy them growing up, u repay ur parents as they brought u up, as long as u are using ur resources in a wise and correct area, you have done ur job. You got to come to terms with yourself.

U got to ask Urself what is enough, ur company don't owe us a car, nor the government owe us a lifestyle, I told my wife, I want to build my kid a 50k study fund, so he can use it for his study, I consider my job done. So while both of us agreed, I scrap my car and took on an part time job during weekends, have stop eating restaurant since 5 years back and being working weekends since 2009.

Hit my 50k mark in 2014. Quit my part time, indulge myself finally for the first time after 5 years, slowly working back to my old lifestyle. Told myself if that is still not sufficient, I leave it to god. Meanwhile my wife and parent have not change any habits.

Security lies with a contingency plan for ur family, but money is never enough for everyone, do what u can, fulfill ur duty, u have done ur job. Live with that without shame or comparison with others, take pride and hang ur head high, mental and physical health is more important than financial health.

Ultimately u are not living with others, but u do have to live withburself everyday.

Peace

[JaViEr84]

Originally Posted by MoJoe313

Bros,
Don't know if you feel it. I am beginning to feel like I am not even in the middle class in our country any more. Wife and me working. We earn average incomes. Combined >$10k a month. But young kids in school. Expenses super high.

My car is 9 years old. Went looking for cars and even a small korean car cost >$100k. Want to get a bigger flat because kids are growing. But prices are ridiculously high. Last time can afford to eat chilli crab once in a while. Now crab is $65 a kilo. Cannot afford to eat anymore. Durian price also gone crazy. If eat out, little bit here and there also cost $50-$100. The $50 bills in my wallet use very fast....maciam flow out like water.

Getting old. Tired of this impossible rat race. You feeling the pinch too?

Bro you might have to cut some slack on your current quality of life.
I realised my colleagues in office also complaining on this but their quality of life is actually better than average.

Example: why need to buy pediasure or enfragrow when there are nestle nan etc, cos his child is ok with nan.(no compromise with health) Reason ? "oh i heard if kid who is not on better milk formula will lose out later in life compare to other kids." I cant compromise my kid's future by providing normal milk powder. Well, I can only say this is what you choose so you cant complain nowadays milk powder cost a bomb and impact alot on your monthly expenses.

Expenses are high right now, but I still can see families surviving well. Times have change we have to adjust to live comfortably. We cant compare to the past anymore. If we are not willing to compromise our current living quality and standard to suit to time, we will definitely feel the impact and stress to maintain our normal lives.

[kuasimi]

Originally Posted by MoJoe313

Bros,
Don't know if you feel it. I am beginning to feel like I am not even in the middle class in our country any more. Wife and me working. We earn average incomes. Combined >$10k a month. But young kids in school. Expenses super high.

My car is 9 years old. Went looking for cars and even a small korean car cost >$100k. Want to get a bigger flat because kids are growing. But prices are ridiculously high. Last time can afford to eat chilli crab once in a while. Now crab is $65 a kilo. Cannot afford to eat anymore. Durian price also gone crazy. If eat out, little bit here and there also cost $50-$100. The $50 bills in my wallet use very fast....maciam flow out like water.

Getting old. Tired of this impossible rat race. You feeling the pinch too?

For 50 years, PAP had been telling Singaporeans to bite bullets, tighten belts, work harder, study harder, sacrifice more etc but even if Singaporeans follow all, high cost of living will not go away. This was because of Government induced policies. When every election is about Bread & Butter Issues for 50 years, something must be wrong.

Singaporeans are feeling like Third World people whereby no matter how educated and how hard you work, you will always feel poor, like the Africans. Inflation in Singapore is 5%-6% each year caused primarily by Government policies on Health, Housing, Transport, Education. High cost of living lowers standard of living because you can purchase lesser and lesser with same purchasing power.

Vote for WP as Government may not mean drastic drop in cost of living but Singaporeans do not know as WP has no track record yet. At least Singaporeans know voting for PAP will definitely mean higher cost of living. Vote wisely at GE2016.

[kuasimi]

Originally Posted by sammyboyfor

Dump them in an old folk's home in a neighboring country. It'll save you a lot of money.

Feb 10, 2009
Live in nursing homes in JB?
SINGAPOREANS could consider living in nursing homes in neighbouring Johor Baru, Health Minister Khaw Boon Wan suggested yesterday.

It would be cheaper, yet be near enough to Singapore for family members to visit and for residents to return for medical care if necessary, he said.

He told Parliament yesterday that he recently visited a site in Johor Baru where a Singaporean investor was planning to build a 200-bed nursing home.

He asked the investor about the costs involved, and was stunned at how low they were.

He said: 'It is mind-boggling. The cost of land and construction cost is so low that my cost of putting up just a polyclinic (in Singapore) is probably more than his cost of putting up a 200-bed nursing home (in Johor Baru).

'The monthly cost of keeping a resident in a private nursing home in Singapore, you can stretch it easily to pay at least 2-1/2 months of nursing home care in Johor Baru.'

If any medical problems cropped up, the elderly could be taken back to Singapore by ambulance, he said.

For most Singaporeans, visiting a relative in a Johor Baru nursing home would not pose significant difficulties, he said.

The investor, who is a nursing home chief executive, told him that many people visited their relatives weekly, even in nursing homes in Singapore.

Mr Khaw added: 'Of course many visit daily, but quite a significant number visit only during the weekends, so what is the difference in putting them in Johor Baru?'

LEE HUI CHIEH

[kuasimi]

[MoJoe313]

Originally Posted by furrybird

Hmm bro, I think I understand what you mean, every family have its problems, I'm staying with parents, and wife and a kid. Can see the expenses going up every year. I'm a very careful guy with finance so I kept records of my money spent daily, after my kid came out, my savings per year got lesser every year especially from 2011.

I think you are not looking for a consul but rather an option to let off some steam. Let's put it this way, I think you are able to manage to cope with ur family finance, however you feel insecure because you may not be able to put aside enough savings or have enough for raining days having these confirm committement monthly.

Life is all about trade off, you spent on your kids, to enjoy them growing up, u repay ur parents as they brought u up, as long as u are using ur resources in a wise and correct area, you have done ur job. You got to come to terms with yourself.

U got to ask Urself what is enough, ur company don't owe us a car, nor the government owe us a lifestyle, I told my wife, I want to build my kid a 50k study fund, so he can use it for his study, I consider my job done. So while both of us agreed, I scrap my car and took on an part time job during weekends, have stop eating restaurant since 5 years back and being working weekends since 2009.

Hit my 50k mark in 2014. Quit my part time, indulge myself finally for the first time after 5 years, slowly working back to my old lifestyle. Told myself if that is still not sufficient, I leave it to god. Meanwhile my wife and parent have not change any habits.

Security lies with a contingency plan for ur family, but money is never enough for everyone, do what u can, fulfill ur duty, u have done ur job. Live with that without shame or comparison with others, take pride and hang ur head high, mental and physical health is more important than financial health.

Ultimately u are not living with others, but u do have to live withburself everyday.

Peace

Thanks for writing, bro. Second post in 3 years. You must feel something to speak out.

Some quick points. Staying with parents is different from parents staying with you. You bear all cost for the latter. Yes, I am not looking for counsel. You were the only one sharp enough to notice. The rest were busy offering unnecessary advice. LoL. Yes, I am coping well. Just letting off some steam here. Again, you are sharp.

But no, I am not worried about putting aside finances for rainy days or retirement. I have sufficient reserves. Like I wrote, I do not consider myself poor. I wrote >$10k income. Not $10k. I am just getting old and tired of the game. The rapidly increasing cost of living scares me.

I am inspired that you put in so much effort for your kid's study fund. And by this, I know you are a genuine parent. Some writers here just pretend to be one. Yes, physical health is the most important at our age. I wish you good health too. You are a good and sincere person. Peace, brother.

[zeajay]

Originally Posted by godsfury

Voting WP will make your life better? U mean they duwan u pay taxes? Kick out ft? Increase our salaries? Everyone will get a car? No erp? Lolol

Well said bro, I don't see how by voting pap out can improve our lives.

[Nato17]

Originally Posted by MoJoe313

I am educated. I studied economics. I understand inflation. 5 years ago, crab was $32 per kg. Today its $65 per kg. It is a 100% increase. It is not called Inflation. It is called Hyper Inflation. Perhaps you haven't lived here since birth so you do not notice.

I used crab as an example. I do not have to eat crab (and act rich). This is Singapore. We are famous for Chilli _____. So its price should be common knowledge. Seriously? Must I explain every detail?

Excellent post. I know I was one of the first to really complain the prices were going through hyper inflation but everyone else thought it was ok. I am price sensitive because I have salaries to pay and thus I feel it. Anyway, I think the QE is one of the reasons we are in this situation and given that our governments' policy is not to interfere that leaves us sinkies to fend for ourselves.

Governments like to inflation and erode our purchasing power. Deflation doesn't help them at all and in fact if you look at how the newspapers put it, you would think that deflation is really bad. Look at it another way. If I remember correctly, ECP was built for 1 billion dollars. A lot of money than but now, ECP would considered a steal, thus inflation is good for the government. However, if you were Tan Tock Seng and were one of the richest men in SG then, you would not be able to keep up with inflation over time.

[Ngengheng]

Must spend within your means. Your job might not be there forever too. When you reach 50s be prepare to lose your job too . Get ready for a pay cut too. Couple with so many FTs here in sg. Dont over stretch .

[Nato17]

Originally Posted by furrybird

U got to ask Urself what is enough, ur company don't owe us a car, nor the government owe us a lifestyle, I told my wife, I want to build my kid a 50k study fund, so he can use it for his study, I consider my job done. So while both of us agreed, I scrap my car and took on an part time job during weekends, have stop eating restaurant since 5 years back and being working weekends since 2009.

I agree that the government does not owe us a living. But the last thing I expect from my leaders is sabotage my future and the future of my loved ones. When other countries practice trade protectionism, we do the opposite and we pay higher than others. That is unfair to our own people and that is what I do gripe about.

I think I sat down last year to figure out what my cost savings would be if I were to stay in SG vs staying in PRC.

The assumptions are as follows:

1. 3 bedroom condo.
2. BMW - 3 series.
3. Normal usage of petrol, utilities etc.
4. Cigarettes - 3 packs a day.

That is all. Nothing unique.

And I found out after running some simulations, I would save about $4,000 to almost $4500 per month if I were to live in PRC vs in SG. Thus, I would save without trying almost $50k a year. Nothing really. However, in 10 years I would have saved $500,000 doing nothing more than switch countries to live in. The government likes to compare us with other countries and I am just employing the same strategy as them and thus my peers doing the same thing would thus enjoy $500k SGD in savings in 10 years! Not earnings but SAVINGS.

I think our electricity bill is kinda wacked if you ask me. I mean I think SG pays something like 0.22 cents per K/J and PRC pays something like 0.10 or something like that. And every time I see the SP Bill, I am like WTF, I always seem to be using higher than my neighbours etc. One day, I am going to seriously take a poll if my neighbours really use less than me.

[Nato17]

Originally Posted by Ngengheng

Must spend within your means. Your job might not be there forever too. When you reach 50s be prepare to lose your job too . Get ready for a pay cut too. Couple with so many FTs here in sg. Dont over stretch .

I concur that a job might not be there forever. And to make matters worse, soon, if you are out of job, you may find that you cannot even drive taxi. Here is my LOGIC. Driveless cars are already being test driven. That means sooner or later, these driveless cars will ply the roads, whether we like it or not. The first mass adopters in SG will be the taxi companies. The reason is this. Why would SMRT or Prime cabs want to rent you a cab, when they can earn the whole cake themselves. And those currently driving taxis, what will they be doing?

This is definitely NOT FT's fault. But it is definitely one issue our government will need to address one day. We humans are selfish and we will overfish, over populate and kick problems down the road for others to solve as long as we meet our current KPI. And that will cause problems for us locals sooner or later.