Wife & Sex - going through the motion

[Wizrd]

Entered in error.

[Wizrd]

Originally Posted by analog

Bro:

Off to MCYS to see a cousellor...on your own first. Then have the counsellour call your wife at work, warn her of course. Trust me, the fact that you did this on your own will BLOW YOUR WIFE away. Its very instructive to sit in a room with a female cousellor and she politiely asks your wife why she refuses to have sex. Your wife's eyes will be as big a saucers, I know, I've seen it myself. It seems to come as such a shock to the current crop of Singaporean Tai-Tais that their first responsibility is to have sex with their husband. Having a coucellor explain that to them is sometimes all it needs. Its a pity their mothers aren't doing that.

Do it, you have nothing to lose.

Cheers,
jim

Don't do it bro...you have everything to lose...please read above.

Cheers.


.

[5ag1_Boar]

A number of us are suggesting different solutions. I believe they are all different parts of a puzzle. Different spouses will respond to different solutions and different phases required different methods.

Some have advocated the hard method: a (figurative) slap in the face, shock, confrontation, ultimatum, etc. I can see the necessity of that in certain situations to shake the other half out of their complacence.

To me the hard method is to reboot the relationship. To get off the slide and start rebuilding the relationship. To get all hands on deck to steer the (relation)ship.

Once the other party has been "awakened", the hard way cannot continue. I'm sure we prefer to be making love with (i.e. two-way) someone who enjoys the act rather than fucking a dutiful but reluctant dead fish. Besides, it will wear on the relationship and make things worse in the long term.

The couple needs to start working on the issues of the relationship that are getting in the way of intimacy, not just physical but emotional as well. People don't just stop enjoying sex for no reason. There's usually some other issue in the way. And for many women, emotional intimacy affects physical intimacy.

I've advocated counselling. It may work for some, it may not for others. Its just one of the avenues available. There are many more: like marriage repair workshops, support groups, etc. What's important, I've learnt in my journey, is that both parties must recognise there are issues and want to fix the problems, then seek the resources to fix it.

Too often people go into a complacent mode when the marriage has gone stale. Adopting a wait and see or a "that's life" mode, thinking they just have to tolerate the remaining years. I even have friends that were simply waiting for the children to be old enough, before asking for divorce.

What if the other half refuses to fix the problems? I do not think its a complete lost cause. In some cases, yes, its gone. But in some cases, perhaps not. The half trying to fix issues has to at least persist for as long he/she can. Of course, there must be point where it has to be abandoned, but if he/she never try, he/she'll never know. I have a friend who got caught cheating twice, and his wife left him, taking with her their young son. He repented and has been working for at least 3 years trying to win her back. Over the years I have seen him slowly succeed, baby step by baby step at a time. Today, although they are still living separately, I believe a reunion is not far in the future. Now he sends/fetch them to/fro school/work daily and go on family outings on weekends. When I met them recently, they behaved like a loving, intact family.

Then, we've got some husbands saying, I do all the housework, take care of the kids, make sure she gets enough rest, etc, and she still refuse to show me love. How come I show her all this love and she is still so unloving. The reason is she is not feeling loved. Knowing you're loved and feeling you're loved are 2 different things. You need to speak her "Love Language".

This is the theory by Dr Gary Chapman. He writes about his theory in his book "The 5 Love Languages". It is a easy book to read, not very chim, and most importantly, makes sense. Non of the small print psycho-babble that some books are. It's not going to solve all your problems, but I strongly believe its one of the essential tools you should have in your relationship toolbox.

Briefly, the 5 love languages are: Touch, Acts of Service, Words of Affirmation, Quality Time and Gifts. Each of us "speak" 1 or 2 of the languages. We naturally express love in these languages and feel love in this languages.
"Touch" people express love through physical contact like holding hands, hugging, cuddling. When someone holds their hand, hug them, etc, they feel loved.
"Acts of Service" people express love by doing things for their loved one. Like doing housework, running errands, cooking for them, etc. Similarly, when people do things for them, they feel loved.

To make our partners feel loved, we need to learn to speak their love language. If your spouse is an "Acts of Service" person, learn to do things for them. Make effort to do things for them when they ask you to, and not just procrastinate.

You can read about the rest at the web site, and the whole thing in the book.

I know some people will be sceptical about this love language thing. I don't blame them. I was too, initially. But I read the book and it really made sense to me. Try the online assessment of your language here: http://www.5lovelanguages.com/assessments/love/

Focusing back to making love. If we want to make love, we need to make sure our other half enjoy sex. One bro's wife says he is like a pervert. One sis shared that she dreaded sex with an ex-bf, but enjoys it with her husband. What's the diff? One didn't care how she feels, just poke and go. The other made her feel loved, comfortable and relaxed. So once your other half is ready to try sex again, start finding out what she wants or needs to feel comfortable with sex again. What has changed from the time she made loved to you daily to the time she stopped. My ex told me she could not reconcile being sexy and being a mother at the same time. Another girl told me kissing is important to her. Some feel like a sex object. Etc.

Sex in a marriage is part of the whole package. Not just a "duty" or "responsibility". It has to be handle as part of the bigger picture and not just by itself.

[Wizrd]

Originally Posted by 5ag1_Boar

A number of us are suggesting different solutions. I believe they are all different parts of a puzzle. Different spouses will respond to different solutions and different phases required different methods.

Some have advocated the hard method: a (figurative) slap in the face, shock, confrontation, ultimatum, etc. I can see the necessity of that in certain situations to shake the other half out of their complacence.

To me the hard method is to reboot the relationship. To get off the slide and start rebuilding the relationship. To get all hands on deck to steer the (relation)ship.

Once the other party has been "awakened", the hard way cannot continue. I'm sure we prefer to be making love with (i.e. two-way) someone who enjoys the act rather than fucking a dutiful but reluctant dead fish. Besides, it will wear on the relationship and make things worse in the long term.

The couple needs to start working on the issues of the relationship that are getting in the way of intimacy, not just physical but emotional as well. People don't just stop enjoying sex for no reason. There's usually some other issue in the way. And for many women, emotional intimacy affects physical intimacy.

I've advocated counselling. It may work for some, it may not for others. Its just one of the avenues available. There are many more: like marriage repair workshops, support groups, etc. What's important, I've learnt in my journey, is that both parties must recognise there are issues and want to fix the problems, then seek the resources to fix it.

Too often people go into a complacent mode when the marriage has gone stale. Adopting a wait and see or a "that's life" mode, thinking they just have to tolerate the remaining years. I even have friends that were simply waiting for the children to be old enough, before asking for divorce.

What if the other half refuses to fix the problems? I do not think its a complete lost cause. In some cases, yes, its gone. But in some cases, perhaps not. The half trying to fix issues has to at least persist for as long he/she can. Of course, there must be point where it has to be abandoned, but if he/she never try, he/she'll never know. I have a friend who got caught cheating twice, and his wife left him, taking with her their young son. He repented and has been working for at least 3 years trying to win her back. Over the years I have seen him slowly succeed, baby step by baby step at a time. Today, although they are still living separately, I believe a reunion is not far in the future. Now he sends/fetch them to/fro school/work daily and go on family outings on weekends. When I met them recently, they behaved like a loving, intact family.

Then, we've got some husbands saying, I do all the housework, take care of the kids, make sure she gets enough rest, etc, and she still refuse to show me love. How come I show her all this love and she is still so unloving. The reason is she is not feeling loved. Knowing you're loved and feeling you're loved are 2 different things. You need to speak her "Love Language".

This is the theory by Dr Gary Chapman. He writes about his theory in his book "The 5 Love Languages". It is a easy book to read, not very chim, and most importantly, makes sense. Non of the small print psycho-babble that some books are. It's not going to solve all your problems, but I strongly believe its one of the essential tools you should have in your relationship toolbox.

Briefly, the 5 love languages are: Touch, Acts of Service, Words of Affirmation, Quality Time and Gifts. Each of us "speak" 1 or 2 of the languages. We naturally express love in these languages and feel love in this languages.
"Touch" people express love through physical contact like holding hands, hugging, cuddling. When someone holds their hand, hug them, etc, they feel loved.
"Acts of Service" people express love by doing things for their loved one. Like doing housework, running errands, cooking for them, etc. Similarly, when people do things for them, they feel loved.

To make our partners feel loved, we need to learn to speak their love language. If your spouse is an "Acts of Service" person, learn to do things for them. Make effort to do things for them when they ask you to, and not just procrastinate.

You can read about the rest at the web site, and the whole thing in the book.

I know some people will be sceptical about this love language thing. I don't blame them. I was too, initially. But I read the book and it really made sense to me. Try the online assessment of your language here: http://www.5lovelanguages.com/assessments/love/

Focusing back to making love. If we want to make love, we need to make sure our other half enjoy sex. One bro's wife says he is like a pervert. One sis shared that she dreaded sex with an ex-bf, but enjoys it with her husband. What's the diff? One didn't care how she feels, just poke and go. The other made her feel loved, comfortable and relaxed. So once your other half is ready to try sex again, start finding out what she wants or needs to feel comfortable with sex again. What has changed from the time she made loved to you daily to the time she stopped. My ex told me she could not reconcile being sexy and being a mother at the same time. Another girl told me kissing is important to her. Some feel like a sex object. Etc.

Sex in a marriage is part of the whole package. Not just a "duty" or "responsibility". It has to be handle as part of the bigger picture and not just by itself.

Now this I can agree with...

Let's wake the wife or husband up...then slowly woo them back into a functional pairing...

That is the whole basis of tough love...just slapping without the sayang after will not work...but just sayang alone will also not work if there are problems already...slap then sayang...rinse and repeat...

Of course, if your marriage is fine, don't anyhow slap...if it ain't broke, don't fuck with it...is my motto...if it is working...continue to sayang as much as possible...

Thanks bro...good job!

.

[analog]

Guys:

Ultimatums to not work. If you go that work, you'll fail.

Cheers,
jim

[Frankiestine]

Originally Posted by Wizrd;7$$$$46

Thanks Jim....

It does not always work for 'smart' women to hear a professional tell her that she should have sex with the husband...the fact that the husband found this counsellor will stink to high heavens to her...now she will feel humiliated that her husband will 'gang up' with an outsider, another woman no less, to 'talk down' to her about neglecting her duties. (a male counsellor is worse, because what does he know about being a wife?)

Maybe it worked for you, bro...but I reckon it will backfire more often than it works...unless...the wife is the one who finds the counsellor...then the chance of success is higher...however...she doesn't think she has a problem so she won't go looking for one...END OF YOUR PLAN!!!
.

Yes I can't agreed more with bro Wizrd on the highlighted portion. I tried the same thing with my oc too, honestly I was going through a real rough patch needed someone to talk but seems like ironically my oc was the last person i could have a heart to heart talk...end up i have a female confidante (if you reading this you know who you are)...i was actually going through a bout of depression, really a lack of active sex life can really makes you feel depress...i told oc i was confiding in someone about our problem..she hit the roof and felt so insulted, that an outsider has to come and teach us how to run our lives...i suggested to her to talk to this female confidante of mine, perhaps as women they can relate to each other...i can only say the whole matter left a bad taste behind...true be told, not every woman wants to be told how to be "real" woman....

[purple001]

Personal point of view- if my ex is gonna find me a counsellor (a female one esp.) to tell me that one of my duties being a wife is to provide sex to my husband, I'll definitely hit the roof. Frankly, the last thing I would want to hear is someone teaching me how to manage my marriage life. Whether is it right or not, it should nvr be from another person's mouth..esp sensitive issues like this. Other issues like communication prob, how to maintain good relationship etc... It's fine, and I might be more willing to listen.. Lol.

[Wizrd]

Originally Posted by Frankiestine

Yes I can't agreed more with bro Wizrd on the highlighted portion. I tried the same thing with my oc too, honestly I was going through a real rough patch needed someone to talk but seems like ironically my oc was the last person i could have a heart to heart talk...end up i have a female confidante (if you reading this you know who you are)...i was actually going through a bout of depression, really a lack of active sex life can really makes you feel depress...i told oc i was confiding in someone about our problem..she hit the roof and felt so insulted, that an outsider has to come and teach us how to run our lives...i suggested to her to talk to this female confidante of mine, perhaps as women they can relate to each other...i can only say the whole matter left a bad taste behind...true be told, not every woman wants to be told how to be "real" woman....

Originally Posted by purple001

Personal point of view- if my ex is gonna find me a counsellor (a female one esp.) to tell me that one of my duties being a wife is to provide sex to my husband, I'll definitely hit the roof. Frankly, the last thing I would want to hear is someone teaching me how to manage my marriage life. Whether is it right or not, it should nvr be from another person's mouth..esp sensitive issues like this. Other issues like communication prob, how to maintain good relationship etc... It's fine, and I might be more willing to listen.. Lol.

Thanks both...we all know this actually...but desperation makes us ignore the pitfalls when our hands grasps at straws, with the hope to pass our problem onto another...professional....person.

Special thanks to sis purple001 for confirming my hypothesis and understanding of women...


There we have it bros....talk to you wife...use the ultimatum method, don't use the ultimatum method...it is entirely up to you....let the woman choose a female counsellor should you both wish to go that way...but do NOT ambush her!!

I still believe it is the husband who has to do the talking with the wife...most bros are reluctant to do so because of fear...a fear of the uncertainty in the outcome...but if you have prep your own mind for the worst case scenario...ie: divorce...then you will be brave enough to initiate communication with your wife...

Do that...and do that soon...you owe it to yourself to understand your own wife's mindset on enjoying sex with you...and get your marriage back on track...


.

[analog]

Originally Posted by Frankiestine

Yes I can't agreed more with bro Wizrd on the highlighted portion. I tried the same thing with my oc too, honestly I was going through a real rough patch needed someone to talk but seems like ironically my oc was the last person i could have a heart to heart talk...end up i have a female confidante (if you reading this you know who you are)...i was actually going through a bout of depression, really a lack of active sex life can really makes you feel depress...i told oc i was confiding in someone about our problem..she hit the roof and felt so insulted, that an outsider has to come and teach us how to run our lives...i suggested to her to talk to this female confidante of mine, perhaps as women they can relate to each other...i can only say the whole matter left a bad taste behind...true be told, not every woman wants to be told how to be "real" woman....

Bro:

Of course she hit the roof. Read what you wrote. You confided in another female, not a guy friend or a cousellor, another female. What did you expect? Congradulations? Another female is a THREAT to your wife...you have to stop thinking like a guy or you're not going to get anywhere. You go to MCYS and see a coucellor your wife will NOT hit the roof. A cousellour is not a threat to her because its the coucellor's job and the coucellor works for MCYS.

Guys, stop using logic, your wife is a woman, not a guy.

Cheers,
jim

[analog]

Originally Posted by purple001

Personal point of view- if my ex is gonna find me a counsellor (a female one esp.) to tell me that one of my duties being a wife is to provide sex to my husband, I'll definitely hit the roof. Frankly, the last thing I would want to hear is someone teaching me how to manage my marriage life. Whether is it right or not, it should nvr be from another person's mouth..esp sensitive issues like this. Other issues like communication prob, how to maintain good relationship etc... It's fine, and I might be more willing to listen.. Lol.

Purple:

Are you a lady or a guy?

In any case, there are two choices:
1. You fix your marriage and grow old together,
2. You get divorced and likely die alone. (This more of a problem for women than men)

That is what is on the table. There are many blogs by divorced women all over the internet who realized well after their divorces that their lack of interest in sex was the cause of their break up. They don't realize it initially, they come to that realization after a few years.

In general, women need to feel loved before they'll wnat sex, men need sex to feel loved. If you don't have sex with your husband, to him it means you do not love him. Its that simple, that is how a guys brain works. Cooking is nice but he can buy noodles at a coffee shop if you don't cook for him, but you MUST fuck him, you're his wife for gosh sakes.....if not you, then who? If he goes to a brothel, you can divorce him but then why should he need to go to a brothel, he's married, no?

Most of you here are married with kids. This isn't secondary school, its real life and life is messy. If you've seen your children born, you'll understand that.

You can try and live like a monk as a man, but eventually your head explodes....it happened to me. You try and take your mind off it (and inside you are soo embarrassed that you put up with this sort of crap and abuse you don't tell anybody about it) and you convince yourself you'll stay together for the family but in the end.....hormones win out, you NEED intimacy.

I already had my lawyer picked out and I was done. Every man in a sexless marriage will reach the same end. Since the family court will send you both for couselling you might as well just go on your own.

Now, many of you are thinking that the cousellor will sit your wife down on an elevated chair and bright lights shining at her and question her through a loud speaker "WHY AREN'T YOU FUCKING YOUR HUSBAND?". It does not work like that. The cousellour gets you talking to each other and tries to stay out of it. It will go something like this:
Counsellor to the husband: So what is the problem?
Husband: No sex, no intimacy.
Counsellor to wife: You heard what "husband's name" said, what are your thoughts?
Wife: Too buys with kids job, etc...blah, blah, blah.....
Counsellor to husband: Are you aware?
Husband: Yes but still....
Counsellor to wife: What could be done to lessen some stress so that you could have some time together?

And in this way the coucellor will get you talking. If you stop talking, they'll jump in again. That is how it goes. if the wife says, "I don't love him anymore" or somehting like that, the cousellour will explore whether this can be fixed or not. If not, then its off to the respective lawyers' offices to sort everything out.

All they do is get you talking but, there is an underlying reality here:
"Refusing to have sex with your husband without a valid reason is legal grounds for divorce in Singapore and most other places.".

That is a fact. The whole purpose of marriage is intimacy, if there is none, there is no reason to stay married.

So that's it boys and girls.

Do NOT talk to third party women about your problems, your wife will hit the roof....this is expected. You talk to a consellour or a lawyer, that's it. What is between you and your wife is private so you should talk to people that are bound by their professions to stay quiet.

Cheers,
jim

[Wizrd]

Originally Posted by analog

In any case, there are two choices:
1. You fix your marriage and grow old together,
2. You get divorced and likely die alone. (This more of a problem for women than men)

Sadly bro Jim...whether we want to believe it or not...we all die alone.

Having a few people around us while we die alone simply complicates things...may make some people happier but equally may make some people more miserable.

What you may be talking about bro, is the wish to have someone around those years before we die...that I can agree with...however...

Depending on who that person is...I may or may not subscribe to having a spouse can solve that problem.

A neighbour of mine died last year and in his will, he gave his maid a quarter of his asset...the wife, who got half cried bloody murder.
I knew him quite well. He was stuck in his wheelchair for the last 5-6 years...everyday, his maid would wheel him around...to get coffee, lunch and just to be out and about...he couldn't have fucked her because his condition wouldn't have allowed it....the maid spent hours accompanying him...even wheeled him to come tcss with us...

I have asked the wife...being the naturally kaypoh and direct person that I am...why won't she spend more time with him...

Her answer...too troublesome...he tells the same stories all the time and she got tired hearing it...he has too many demands...want to go here...go there but cannot walk...her final conclusion...I have a life you know?!?! (btw...her life, as far as I know, is playing mahjong, 12-15 hours a day...well, and time for the salon cos her hair style was different all the time.)
His children were all grown and they really did have their own life...

So...his spouse was not the one he could depend on...even though they have been married for 40 odd years...

I think he should have given the maid half or more...but ok, she only did it for a few years when the wife did it for much longer...

Anyway, my point is...we all die alone...the fancy funeral is done for the benefit of the living, and not for the person in the coffin.

Now, many of you are thinking that the cousellor will sit your wife down on an elevated chair and bright lights shining at her and question her through a loud speaker "WHY AREN'T YOU FUCKING YOUR HUSBAND?". It does not work like that. The cousellour gets you talking to each other and tries to stay out of it. It will go something like this:

Bro Jim...

Please understand that I am not against your suggestion of talking to counsellors...I am against the way that you suggested...that you go find one, tell her your problems...THEN call the wife and say, honey, I love you very much and because of that I went and seeked marriage counselling, and by the way, please expect a call from a counsellor....

That will get our bros here killed!!

So that's it boys and girls.

Do NOT talk to third party women about your problems, your wife will hit the roof....this is expected. You talk to a consellour or a lawyer, that's it. What is between you and your wife is private so you should talk to people that are bound by their professions to stay quiet.

Cheers,
jim

I fully agree with this bro...but still insist that the wife should be the one making the appointment. (the husband can make the suggestion...but let the wife make the move.)

Thanks bro...

.

[Botakhead]

I've tried to be gogether for my friend and his wife, at first things seems to work out Dior both of them with me being their listening ear, then one day things took a turn over and ended nasty.

Having confided in me that their sex life is at a standstill, the wife sort of becums a little too comfortable with me, especially when he was at work doing OT, I must have been too engrossed with listening to her rantings and she took it as a very intimate gesture, she was soon all over me, hugging and kissing, then the unexpected had to happen, I could only play along with her advances. We had passionate sex that very night, and it went on for a few months even when they had patched up with each other and started having regular intimate sessions of love making, I now becums their 3rd party.

I wanted out from this relationship, wanted to break off with her, but she told me that she only got back with him so that she can be with me and have me to cuddle her, fuck her. At one point of time, I myself nearly needed counseling, I took up the courage and told her that she and him needed each other more than me as a 3rd party. Slowly I seen less of her and she also agreed to the break up.

Hope they are doing well now after I gave up my friendship with them, I strongly believes that both husbands and wives must be honest, open, understanding, tolerant to each others differences and dislikes. Eventually things will work out at the end of the day.

[analog]

Originally Posted by Wizrd

Bro Jim...

Please understand that I am not against your suggestion of talking to counsellors...I am against the way that you suggested...that you go find one, tell her your problems...THEN call the wife and say, honey, I love you very much and because of that I went and seeked marriage counselling, and by the way, please expect a call from a counsellor....

That will get our bros here killed!!
.

If you are at the point where you are scared of your wife or scared of her reaction to you talking to a cousellour, you're not ready yet. Your head has not exploded yet. You'll get to the point where you don't give a shit what her reaction is, that is when you go and talk to the cousellor. Depression is a fantastic motivator.

You don't "Call the wife", you talk to her. Put the cousellour's card on the table and say "I went to see a cousellour at MCYS today because I have been very depressed. The cousellour asked if its ok for her to call you, will that be ok?". If your wife says no, you go and see your lawyer, its done. If she says yes, away you go.

I'm asuuming that the gentlemen writing here are at the end of their tethers and ready to either:
1. Fix their marriage,
2. End their marriage.

If they're just here bitching, they're not ready for either. One day they will be.

Cheers,
Jim

[analog]

Bro:

Women can be dangerous...
Best to leave marriage problems to the parties concerned, stay out lah.
Man woman stuff is messy like birth.


Jim

[purple001]

Originally Posted by analog

Purple:

Are you a lady or a guy?

In any case, there are two choices:
1. You fix your marriage and grow old together,
2. You get divorced and likely die alone. (This more of a problem for women than men)

Cheers,
jim

Hi there,
To answer yr qn- I am an woman. But take note that every women react differently to situations like these. I've have tried marriage counselling prior to my divorce, but my focus wasn't on the intimacy part then. But given the same scenario, if my ex were to tell me that one of my wifey duties is to have sex with my hubby, I may not agree totally. Deep in my heart I'll prob be think- damn, I've spend x years of my youth with u, bore u kids, take care of u and the house etc, and all u can think of its just sex ??? Likely it will make me angrier and felt so unappreciated. Yep, it's part and parcel of marriage life, I do not deny that. But this can only happen if my mind is willing., and i am ready. Dont expect it to be like before immediately, give some time allowance. For many women (yes, many.), our priorities changed once kids arrive. Maybe it's a shift of priorities / motherly instinct etc that kids well being comes first. It does not mean that there is no more love / lesser love towards the hubby. Not that case. Hormonal or what, maybe. At this point of time, the focus will be on other things, children, career, housework etc. The need for sex changed to something that is less needed.

A counselling session may work for some as I've mentioned earlier, Can try, but take note of the risks of being backfired. Double edge sword, it may break or mend the missing part in the couple's life. Congrats if it's successful, only you guys know whether yr wifey is the receptive kind. Sex only come when the moment, feeling is right, the need is there. Ultimatum or not, its yr choice.

Spend some time having a real heart to heart talk, don't jump into the sex part yet. Talk abt the younger carefree days before marriage, the beautiful memories you both shared and how u would like to grow old with her. Make it touching and romantic as much as possible. Nvr ever grumble abt how deprived or upset u r with her for the lack of sex. If the feeling is right, intimacy will come to u, and if u r successful, then talk abt the conditions on how u would wish to have it x times a week etc. It goes a long way.