Advise please

[williamangkh]

Hearing from Bro Charmaine plight, i would only suggest the followings;

1. If you cannot bear your girl being touch while working in the G-club, (which is very remote) as she is there to please the customer, then ask her to stop working and support her. If you are serious in this relationship, you should do it. Else, how is she going to support her child and herself if she is not working. If you do not want to support her, cannot blame her cause you already knew what her profession.

2. Sweet nothing - Thai girl do not usually say such stuff cause she do not want herself to be hurt again as she do not know how serious/long this relationship will be. It is easier for her to forget you if you dump her. Girl working in this line knew that customers (i think you will once her customer too) is here to enjoy and might totally stop and move on to other places/girls.

3. Meeting the parents - This shows she is really serious, as most of the thai girls do not want their "flings" to turn up at her hometown, cause the rural ppls (i think she come from there, correct me if i am wrong) like to gossip.

4. Relationship witha thai girl - be ready to take care of her entire family cause it is their culture.

5. Marrying a thai girl - ready for sinsoot (dowry) and it is a must. And also be ready to uproot yourself and stay in thailand unless she has no qualm about residing in Singapore. (Language, food, friends, etc)

To sum it all, you must be clear about your intention, "fling or relationship (that lead to marriage) If you are just "playing", be fair, she can too!

But remember, guys still available when we grow old but for girls, once they are over their prime, it is difficult for them to find someone to settle down.

Just my 2 cents worth and i already went through it without regret at all as i am happily married and living in Bangkok.

[yinyang]

Originally Posted by Charmaine

..How are you ever able to dive into a serious relationship if you can't trust your other half a hundred per cent?
-....more weary when she becomes too liberal with them and calling me tirak all over the place, but she seems like the other extreme - she's almost reluctant, and takes painful effort to avoid, saying these things. It's almost as if she doesn't have feelings for me and feels weird saying it to someone she doesn't love. Or am I overly sensitive?
- What really goes on in G-Clubs? ..Should I trust her or am I just I self-delusional?
She's the one trying now and I'm the one freaking out. Maybe reading too many horror stories on the perils of stupid farangs falling in love with Thai bar-girls does take its toll. I actually feel guilty about this.

You not wrong on most counts. Not being very expressive with lovey dovey com is similiar to my thai OL gf experience. Worse, complained to her that she's cold sometimes (but that's her makeup, strong headed and "hot heart" in her own words). Take her for what she is, and not what she cannot be. Though this can vary with individual personalities etc.

On her nocturnal job, there are no 2 ways about it. Your insecurities will the death of you and r/s. If you are taking r/s to a different level, my honest take is to get her out of the bar. And you probably heard the caveat that one can take the gal out of the bar, but not the bar in the gal. Lifestyle, their bar cronies, old contacts come into play.. purging off same will take effort, time. But everything else being equal, you stand a better chance to succeed.

You have progressed since, so I hope everything goes on well

Originally Posted by Playman

http://sammyboy.today/3131332-post1350.html
Just to share some of my experience....don't take it as an example but just for your thought

Originally Posted by CeiResident

Quote for u :Like they said all wells that ends wells. Once the wound heals, all is forgotten....but before u know it, it hurt again.....the same old injury, the same old pain. When's all is said and done, there is no such things as the end."

Good instrospective piece, and well said

[Charmaine]

Originally Posted by adidas88

Instead of focusing on looking for the right partner,
Focused on being the right partner.[/COLOR]

No one falls in love by choice, it is by chance ..
No one stays in love by chance, it is by work ...
And no one fall out of love by chance, it is by choice.

This quote struck me like a blow to the head with a baseball bat.

You're absolutely right. Nobody chooses to fall in love - it will always be by chance. But falling out of it is entirely an individual choice.

And I think I've also been guilty of trying to mould her slowly into what I think I want her to be. I'm self-delusional - who do I think I'm kidding? She's been in the G-Club scene for more than 3 years, already has a kid and lied to me about it before I forced her to come clean. She's not Little Miss Innocent, and I've been trying to convince myself that she is, or worse, trying to turn her into something she is not. To give her credit, I think she's already trying very hard and I shouldn't fault her anymore for her role in this. I actually get angry when she tells me she got drunk the night before knowing full well that it's her fucking job to drink. She has been extremely patient when it's much easier to lose her temper and berate me for being ridiculous.

But I'll hang in there.

adidas88: You mentioned that if there is no trust in the relationship, it wouldn't work. I agree with that a hundred per cent. Thing is, Thai girls are never, ever honest. So invariably the trust element will always be suspect. How on earth do we deal with this?

I personally don't think (based on gut feel; they're mostly accurate or so at least I hope) she's sleeping around. She's told me about her dating history and I can trust that part of her story, and I would be extremely surprised if she is. But you never know with these Thai women in the scene, can you. I made the silly error of sleeping with her without protection, because I wanted to trust her and her stories. But I also know I'll never do it again.

[Charmaine]

Originally Posted by williamangkh

Hearing from Bro Charmaine plight, i would only suggest the followings;

1. If you cannot bear your girl being touch while working in the G-club, (which is very remote) as she is there to please the customer, then ask her to stop working and support her. If you are serious in this relationship, you should do it. Else, how is she going to support her child and herself if she is not working. If you do not want to support her, cannot blame her cause you already knew what her profession.

2. Sweet nothing - Thai girl do not usually say such stuff cause she do not want herself to be hurt again as she do not know how serious/long this relationship will be. It is easier for her to forget you if you dump her. Girl working in this line knew that customers (i think you will once her customer too) is here to enjoy and might totally stop and move on to other places/girls.

3. Meeting the parents - This shows she is really serious, as most of the thai girls do not want their "flings" to turn up at her hometown, cause the rural ppls (i think she come from there, correct me if i am wrong) like to gossip.

4. Relationship witha thai girl - be ready to take care of her entire family cause it is their culture.

5. Marrying a thai girl - ready for sinsoot (dowry) and it is a must. And also be ready to uproot yourself and stay in thailand unless she has no qualm about residing in Singapore. (Language, food, friends, etc)

To sum it all, you must be clear about your intention, "fling or relationship (that lead to marriage) If you are just "playing", be fair, she can too!

But remember, guys still available when we grow old but for girls, once they are over their prime, it is difficult for them to find someone to settle down.

Just my 2 cents worth and i already went through it without regret at all as i am happily married and living in Bangkok.

Thank you for the very enlightening advice, William. I really appreciate it.

- I have brought up the idea of getting her out of the bar and she was over the moon. After I did my sums, though, I realised that I couldn't afford it. She was very very disappointed but we have since moved on. She berated me for that ("You should never have brought it up if you're not able to do it") and I accept that it's totally my fault. It was one silly night of emotion and I just decided that I couldn't take her getting touched by different men every night anymore, so I brought it up. I could do it, of course, but I also want to save for the future and I have to think long-term. Right now, I have every intention of marrying her and we have discussed about this at great length - she's more than willing to come to Singapore to live with me for good (she's always asking me about PR procedures and is obviously looking forward to ending her bullshit life as a G-Club girl). I have an apartment ready for move-in but not really sure if I'll be able to support the family financially (she doesn't want to work after she gets married). My annual income hovers around the region of S$55k - S$60k per annum and it's probably enough for one person or even two if we are prudent but it's an entirely different matter for 3 (her daughter too), although she has mentioned that she doesn't mind suffering with me. Which brings me neatly to the question of..

- Her daughter. I will have to carry the burden of someone else's kid who is not my own. I was extremely repulsive about the idea at first, but have since acknowledged the fact that if I say I love her, I have to love her daughter too.

- I understand sinsot and the logic of taking in her entire family. It all boils down to money I guess.

Thank you all for your time again.

[williamangkh]

Yes, thai girl do not like empty promises and they will always remember.

Good to hear that you are saving for the future but this is different. You can wait but she cannot! Waiting meant to her as good as nothing! And if you are really serious in marrying her, then i suggest that you better do your sum now and figure it out, else let her go and move on!

As long she is working in G-club, you might be aware that someday, someone will come along and "bail" her out. It is fair for her as she need to ensure someone will be there to take care of her and her child when she past her prime.

As for her child, you must come to term on this and not regret after marrying her! Her child is only 3, so it is easier for you. Mine is 10 and 11, when i married!

As for her staying in Singapore, of course every thai will love it (grass is always greener outside) but she might get bore after awhile (my friend's thai wife is a sample, even though she is really got her PR in singapore and living for more than 10 years in Singapore) and now seeking my advice to move back to Thailand, Korat. They usually travel to thailand, twice a year and this maybe very "taxing" due to extra expenses.

My advice in marrying a thai wife, you must be prepare to give up many things and comprise. Always remember do not rack up her past during argument and her family come first before you!
Be very prepare to forget all her past and treasure the present!

[williamangkh]

Bro Charmaine, sorry if i sound too crude or pessimistic about your plight but i am just being straight forward as this kind of relationship maybe very "taxing" to your work and worst might affect your performance in your workplace.

You cannot be thinking and worrying about it while working, but it is easier to say than done!

If you are still in doubt, then i suggest that you concentrate in building your career.

I knew my present wife in 2001 and then i just start going regional. It do affect my performance, thus i stopped this relationship and continue focusing in my career. Of course, then she have some boyfriends during my absence.... but finally i realise that i am done with my career (enough of working for someone) and lucky for me that she is still available without any boyfriend. i started the relationship again and within 1.5 years we got married. If she is meant to be yours, she will be!

[Charmaine]

I totally understand where you are coming from, William. I am enlightened. Maybe I just can't understand Thai culture and WLs' way of life enough to get involved with all this.

She did talk about this before - the fact that she wants to be with me because I "represent a better future, I have a good plan for her and she feels secure with me". I asked her back "You didn't say anything about love." to which she replied "Of course there must be love first. But we're not children anymore. We have to think of other things too."

Maybe I'm just a hopeless romantic at heart. I didn't know that Thai girls think of a deluge of other factors when considering a life partner. I thought love was all that was required.

"I know you will have options. I know where you work and there will always be better looking guys with more money wanting to take you with him." I said.

"Yes, but at this time there is no one. Everyone just wants to have fun and nobody is serious."

I fumed. "So you mean if anyone showed an interest you would consider?"

She refused to answer that question.

Is there no romance left in this world anymore, even in Thailand?

The thing I'm really concerned about is how she would just play passive in the relationship if not for my incessant pushing.

I was the one who told her that we need to stay in constant touch if we want this to work.

I was the one who told her that we should sms more often and talk online about our future more often.

And I was the one who made such a big fuss out of not hearing from her at night that she gave in and resorted to texting me every night to tell me she's alright. I know sometimes she's not because her text messages are badly spelled from time to time (she can spell and speak English very, very well for a Thai) and in it the contents indicate that she's ok and not drunk. But logic would dictate that she is.

Maybe it's all my fault that I'm imposing these things upon her. If I let loose, she's not going to bother to stay in touch. Is this a real relationship? She's trying to adapt to me, and I'm trying to adapt to her. But it's been tough. I know that she still cares, because one night when I was having innocent drinks with a colleague (who has shown interest in me and she's fully aware of her existence) she threw up a big fit and called me a number of times that night before calming down and apologising for not trusting me (I assured her thereafter). But is this the way Thais live and breath relationships - only getting worked up when she feels threatened, if not kick back and enjoying the ride? I'm mighty confused.

[NakaSky]

Romance exists in Thailand but only for a short period of time.

Bread and money is essentially important than romance.

[Playman]

Originally Posted by adidas88

Hi All,

u need to think how and what u can do to stop all these ...
if u truly love her .. then give her a new life ...
if not ... move on with ur life and leave her ...[/B]

Instead of focusing on looking for the right partner,
Focused on being the right partner.[/COLOR]

No one falls in love by choice, it is by chance ..
No one stays in love by chance, it is by work ...
And no one fall out of love by chance, it is by choice.

This is the the words of a very experienced man who have gone through shit to be able to tell you this....respect and I fully agrees!

[Playman]

Originally Posted by Charmaine

That's an extremely touching story. Mine pales in comparison. I'm not sure if I'll ever have the courage to tell a girl I love to "just go". But everything seems to work out ok now and I guess everything takes time.

I can laugh over it now but I had a difficult time back then....it is all over and done now. it is a real incident happens to me and I stop the my cheonging life to Thailand after that....blessing in disguise as that make time for me to be able to meet my present wife

Originally Posted by adidas88

u need to think how and what u can do to stop all these ...
if u truly love her .. then give her a new life ...
if not ... move on with ur life and leave her ...[/B]

Instead of focusing on looking for the right partner,
Focused on being the right partner.[/COLOR]

No one falls in love by choice, it is by chance ..
No one stays in love by chance, it is by work ...
And no one fall out of love by chance, it is by choice.

Bro Adidas....

I saw....read ur comment.....sat back....read it again...tried to really absorb it.....and well......Bro.....just one word..."BRAVO"....

LMP

[Playman]

Originally Posted by Charmaine

I totally understand where you are coming from, William. I am enlightened. Maybe I just can't understand Thai culture and WLs' way of life enough to get involved with all this.

Is there no romance left in this world anymore, even in Thailand?

The thing I'm really concerned about is how she would just play passive in the relationship if not for my incessant pushing.

I was the one who told her that we need to stay in constant touch if we want this to work.

I was the one who told her that we should sms more often and talk online about our future more often.

And I was the one who made such a big fuss out of not hearing from her at night that she gave in and resorted to texting me every night to tell me she's alright. I know sometimes she's not because her text messages are badly spelled from time to time (she can spell and speak English very, very well for a Thai) and in it the contents indicate that she's ok and not drunk. But logic would dictate that she is.

Maybe it's all my fault that I'm imposing these things upon her. If I let loose, she's not going to bother to stay in touch. Is this a real relationship? She's trying to adapt to me, and I'm trying to adapt to her. But it's been tough. I know that she still cares, because one night when I was having innocent drinks with a colleague (who has shown interest in me and she's fully aware of her existence) she threw up a big fit and called me a number of times that night before calming down and apologising for not trusting me (I assured her thereafter). But is this the way Thais live and breath relationships - only getting worked up when she feels threatened, if not kick back and enjoying the ride? I'm mighty confused.

hahaha oh bro...you are not confused but learning through the hard way like all of us...at least me.....hahahahah....sorry don't mean to rude!

Bro Charmaine...

I will not pretend to be an expert in this area....or try to give u lots of so called advice...

But wat i can share with u is simply this....thai gals...be they WL,OL, FL....or any lady.....they still belief in love and romance...

However, they also know the reality of their family that in many cases depend on them for support and if possible, a way out to a better life....

Being an FL or WL does not mean tat she is not capable of being really in love with u (only u can really judge tat....but use ur head while trying to judge)....none of us here will know really how she feels for u becoz we are not the interested parties in ur relationship.

I have seen many episodes of so called relationships tat WL have tried to work out....and many times they fail.....is it becoz of the lack of love? Yes, many times....but other times its becoz of the lack of trust...common understanding and agreement....and also simply....of the reality of best ends to meet her family needs....ie....the best guy able to take care of her and her family wins all.

Yes.....sounds tat thai gals are materialistic.....but to them...its all abt filial piet...they can sacrifice their own personal joy and look at the larger picture (their whole family).

So if u want to work this out..be prepared to do this ...

a.make sacrifices tat several bros have mentioned

b. be able to take care of her (ie stop working in G Club)..her daughter and family

c. Let go of her past

d. But while doing all tat.....also always use ur head....once u think she is lying to u....let her know in no uncertain manner tat u think she is doing so and tat while u love her and want things to work....lies are not going to help

e. Win her family over but also make them understand tat u are not here to be the "golden goose"....wat u are prpared to give ur gal is this much..and with tat she has to plan how to help them out....but by trying to squeeze u for more...they are only going to kill tat "golden goose".

Okie...think i said too much....hope all works out for u..

CHeers

LMP

[adidas88]

Originally Posted by Charmaine

adidas88: You mentioned that if there is no trust in the relationship, it wouldn't work. I agree with that a hundred per cent. Thing is, Thai girls are never, ever honest. So invariably the trust element will always be suspect. How on earth do we deal with this?

There's a saying:
When choosing ur partner, u need to open both ur eyes,
During courtship, both ur eyes will be closed,
After marriage, u need to close one eye.

To be happy with a woman,
you must love her a lot and not try to understand her at all.

Originally Posted by Charmaine

Maybe I'm just a hopeless romantic at heart. I didn't know that Thai girls think of a deluge of other factors when considering a life partner. I thought love was all that was required.
Is there no romance left in this world anymore, even in Thailand?

no .. there r ... problem is u r looking for it at the wrong place ..

Originally Posted by Charmaine

The thing I'm really concerned about is how she would just play passive in the relationship if not for my incessant pushing.
I was the one who told her that we need to stay in constant touch if we want this to work.
I was the one who told her that we should sms more often and talk online about our future more often.
And I was the one who made such a big fuss out of not hearing from her at night that she gave in and resorted to texting me every night to tell me she's alright. I know sometimes she's not because her text messages are badly spelled from time to time (she can spell and speak English very, very well for a Thai) and in it the contents indicate that she's ok and not drunk. But logic would dictate that she is.

thai gals DO NOT like to be controlled ...
she's doing it to please u becoz u mean something to her ...

Originally Posted by Charmaine

Maybe it's all my fault that I'm imposing these things upon her. If I let loose, she's not going to bother to stay in touch. Is this a real relationship? She's trying to adapt to me, and I'm trying to adapt to her. But it's been tough.

bro .. such relationship is walking on a very thin thread ...
it's not going to last ....

Originally Posted by williamangkh

My advice in marrying a thai wife, you must be prepare to give up many things and comprise. Always remember do not rack up her past during argument and her family come first before you!
Be very prepare to forget all her past and treasure the present!

very good advise from sifu ...

[Charmaine]

Originally Posted by lostmypants

Bro Charmaine...

I will not pretend to be an expert in this area....or try to give u lots of so called advice...

But wat i can share with u is simply this....thai gals...be they WL,OL, FL....or any lady.....they still belief in love and romance...

However, they also know the reality of their family that in many cases depend on them for support and if possible, a way out to a better life....

Being an FL or WL does not mean tat she is not capable of being really in love with u (only u can really judge tat....but use ur head while trying to judge)....none of us here will know really how she feels for u becoz we are not the interested parties in ur relationship.

I have seen many episodes of so called relationships tat WL have tried to work out....and many times they fail.....is it becoz of the lack of love? Yes, many times....but other times its becoz of the lack of trust...common understanding and agreement....and also simply....of the reality of best ends to meet her family needs....ie....the best guy able to take care of her and her family wins all.

Yes.....sounds tat thai gals are materialistic.....but to them...its all abt filial piet...they can sacrifice their own personal joy and look at the larger picture (their whole family).

So if u want to work this out..be prepared to do this ...

a.make sacrifices tat several bros have mentioned

I have. She has too. And I am prepared to change my life for her. And she has agreed to do the same for me.

b. be able to take care of her (ie stop working in G Club)..her daughter and family

I am prepared to. I'm not ready to be a sponsor yet, but I'm willing to do everything I can, financially or otherwise, to take care of her and her daughter for life once we get married and moves here.

c. Let go of her past

I am ready to accept that. She has told me everything - how many sexual partners she's had before (surprisingly not many), her dating history (including a previous sponsor from a married Japanese man more than 7 years ago), and her expectations of the future (willing to settle down with a middle-income earning Singapore man like me)

d. But while doing all tat.....also always use ur head....once u think she is lying to u....let her know in no uncertain manner tat u think she is doing so and tat while u love her and want things to work....lies are not going to help

We've spoken about this at length - she's swore (like I've previously mentioned) that she will never lie again. Knowing the nature of Thai girls, I'm sure that's not a given, and I need to learn to accept that. I guess white lies are meant to do no harm and to protect both parties from getting hurt and avoid trouble so I'm willing to let go of that. But no more lies of a sadistic or selfish nature, if not that's it.

e. Win her family over but also make them understand tat u are not here to be the "golden goose"....wat u are prpared to give ur gal is this much..and with tat she has to plan how to help them out....but by trying to squeeze u for more...they are only going to kill tat "golden goose".

I will address that when I meet up with her father and mother this month or next. We've talked about this and decided that the best way to go would be for me to bring them to a nice family-oriented restaurant, have a lot of beer then talk it out. They both know about her ex-boyfriend (who has arguably done a lot more than me - he bought them a house in the province and sent her money from time to time but has neglected his basic duties as a boyfriend in taking care of my current girlfriend's emotional needs) so it's going to take some billing, but I'm confident of winning them over.

Okie...think i said too much....hope all works out for u..

CHeers

LMP

Thank you all. One of the reasons why I'm so confused is because i would like to think she's considered a special breed of Thai - She's Thai at heart (roots from a Thai father and a Chinese mother so she's Thai-Chinese) but Westernised by upbringing. She's said things like "I chose you - I don't care what my mum says. It's my life" and her respect for her father is waning too ("I don't like him and whatever he says won't affect which man I choose") so it's really a delicate situation but I do know that she still loves her family very much. So we're dealing with someone who is Thai by birth but farang by choice. It doesn't help that her ex-boyfriend of 4 years was Singaporean too so she's pretty much inducted into the whole ang mo process. Her best friend's boyfriend is ang mo too so she's been mixing around a lot with the farang community. Girls like that can be traditional but modernised at the same time, and that makes it doubly hard to decipher her. I'm trying.