Lets talk about retirement

[TMNT99]

For myself as a single man, I break it down into 3 steps. Have been working on this plan for the last 15 years and I am getting somewhere.

Step 1, START : Zero credit card and liabilities debt (car, motorbike, etc).

Step 2, Survival level : Zero asset debt (housing) and I used the CPF SA to great effect in my early 30s, only wished that I have done it at 25, looking at about 3K passive retirement income in future.

Step 3, Enjoyable retirement: develop passive income by investing, saving, SRS, insurance, business, etc. Any passive retirement amount more than 4K will allow you to have a pretty decent retirement as a single in ASEAN. Even in SG also not half bad at 4K a month.

Good luck and please start early! It will break my heart to see my generation collecting plates 20 years down the road. Our parents or grandparents lack the knowledge and choices , but we don't. If we become like that, it is by our own choice already, suck it up ba.

[hamstering]

Originally Posted by TMNT99

For myself as a single man, I break it down into 3 steps. Have been working on this plan for the last 15 years and I am getting somewhere.

Step 1, START : Zero credit card and liabilities debt (car, motorbike, etc).

Step 2, Survival level : Zero asset debt (housing) and I used the CPF SA to great effect in my early 30s, only wished that I have done it at 25, looking at about 3K passive retirement income in future.

Step 3, Enjoyable retirement: develop passive income by investing, saving, SRS, insurance, business, etc. Any passive retirement amount more than 4K will allow you to have a pretty decent retirement as a single in ASEAN. Even in SG also not half bad at 4K a month.

Good luck and please start early! It will break my heart to see my generation collecting plates 20 years down the road. Our parents or grandparents lack the knowledge and choices , but we don't. If we become like that, it is by our own choice already, suck it up ba.

Everything feels organized and good when we make long-term plaining, especially when we make it single. But when you get married and have children, everything is good, sometimes things have to change.

[chubbybastard]

Originally Posted by chinacuntlover

Nah, i don't have these add on lol, except unexpected medical expense. Min cpf payout around 1.7k, so barely scrap by with the designated budget
Live frugal no need live poorly

Beware of a monster called inflation though. I think that monster will only get exponentially bigger in the comming years.

[fallen11]

Originally Posted by TMNT99

For myself as a single man, I break it down into 3 steps. Have been working on this plan for the last 15 years and I am getting somewhere.

Step 1, START : Zero credit card and liabilities debt (car, motorbike, etc).

Step 2, Survival level : Zero asset debt (housing) and I used the CPF SA to great effect in my early 30s, only wished that I have done it at 25, looking at about 3K passive retirement income in future.

Step 3, Enjoyable retirement: develop passive income by investing, saving, SRS, insurance, business, etc. Any passive retirement amount more than 4K will allow you to have a pretty decent retirement as a single in ASEAN. Even in SG also not half bad at 4K a month.

Good luck and please start early! It will break my heart to see my generation collecting plates 20 years down the road. Our parents or grandparents lack the knowledge and choices , but we don't. If we become like that, it is by our own choice already, suck it up ba.

think this is a perfect example of a good retirement plan.

Number 1: get debt free first. Its very hard to start if you have debts. Very easy to build up wealth once debt free.

[chubbybastard]

Originally Posted by TMNT99

For myself as a single man, I break it down into 3 steps. Have been working on this plan for the last 15 years and I am getting somewhere.

Step 1, START : Zero credit card and liabilities debt (car, motorbike, etc).

Step 2, Survival level : Zero asset debt (housing) and I used the CPF SA to great effect in my early 30s, only wished that I have done it at 25, looking at about 3K passive retirement income in future.

Step 3, Enjoyable retirement: develop passive income by investing, saving, SRS, insurance, business, etc. Any passive retirement amount more than 4K will allow you to have a pretty decent retirement as a single in ASEAN. Even in SG also not half bad at 4K a month.

Good luck and please start early! It will break my heart to see my generation collecting plates 20 years down the road. Our parents or grandparents lack the knowledge and choices , but we don't. If we become like that, it is by our own choice already, suck it up ba.

Bro, to get a $4k p.m. return means an annual return of $48k. Assuming that is the std 4% return means you must have capital of $1.2m. How many people can save $1.2m after deducting housing loans, kids, etc. I bet more than 50% of people in Singapore can't save that amount condsidering the median wage is $5k inc cpf or $10k per household.

[TMNT99]

Originally Posted by chubbybastard

Bro, to get a $4k p.m. return means an annual return of $48k. Assuming that is the std 4% return means you must have capital of $1.2m. How many people can save $1.2m after deducting housing loans, kids, etc. I bet more than 50% of people in Singapore can't save that amount condsidering the median wage is $5k inc cpf or $10k per household.

That is why for people like us not born with silver spoon, it is important to use CPF SA to it greatest effect, starting at an early age. My step 2 has already provided about 3K/month (75%) with CPF returns. Step 3 is to get another another 1K/month more to reach 4K (25%) or more. Anything I managed to accumulate in step 3 is a bonus to a better quality of retirement. I am sharing this for the benefit of under 30 years old because for old fart like myself, starting in our 40s maybe too little too late. We need to own our problems before we can be empowered to make a positive change!

[chubbybastard]

Originally Posted by TMNT99

That is why for people like us not born with silver spoon, it is important to use CPF SA to it greatest effect, starting at an early age. My step 2 has already provided about 3K/month (75%) with CPF returns. Step 3 is to get another another 1K/month more to reach 4K (25%) or more. Anything I managed to accumulate in step 3 is a bonus to a better quality of retirement. I am sharing this for the benefit of under 30 years old because for old fart like myself, starting in our 40s maybe too little too late. We need to own our problems before we can be empowered to make a positive change!

I don't believe in CPF. The rules are always changing but fundamentally you need to realise that our CPF is used to fund gov expenditure through issuance of ultra long term bonds. As our population is aging, there are less and less contributors but more and more payouts. Its just unsustainable. Kindalike a legal ponzi scheme. As in all ponzi schemes the only way around it is to lock up your funds for longer. That's why you see withdrawal age and min sum keep increasing. I won't be surprised in another 15-20 years withdrawal age will be increased to 70 and min sum is $500k. That meams most people just won't get their cpf money back.

[TMNT99]

To each his own. Good luck.

[fallen11]

Originally Posted by chubbybastard

I don't believe in CPF. The rules are always changing but fundamentally you need to realise that our CPF is used to fund gov expenditure through issuance of ultra long term bonds. As our population is aging, there are less and less contributors but more and more payouts. Its just unsustainable. Kindalike a legal ponzi scheme. As in all ponzi schemes the only way around it is to lock up your funds for longer. That's why you see withdrawal age and min sum keep increasing. I won't be surprised in another 15-20 years withdrawal age will be increased to 70 and min sum is $500k. That meams most people just won't get their cpf money back.

i think you have incorrect perception about CPF.

1. CPF is different from most other countries' pension system. CPF is what you pay is what you get with interest. Everyone has a personal account and the pension is fixed by what you contributed. Whereas other pension system is funding unlimited pension payouts with current social security tax.

2. The reason of government borrowing is not to cover CPF payouts. It is more likely that increased taxes are used to do so than from borrowings.

3. Governments are not so concerned by local currency liabilities. Why? because they can just do any of the 2 things to solve the issue: print money or raise taxes. Raise taxes you LL have to pay. Can you say no?

4. Locking up your funds is because dont want you to anyhow spend then no money come out and say government cruel never support old people. Most people are like this. They cant save money one. Let them have 100k they will finish it in 6 months, give it to some young girl and then cry poor.

Anyway CPF only covers the basic retirement expense. Its not enough and you shouldnt depend on it as the only means for retirement.
If you have spare cash, invest it yourself.
Forget CPF as its not something within your control.

[chubbybastard]

Originally Posted by fallen11

i think you have incorrect perception about CPF.

1. CPF is different from most other countries' pension system. CPF is what you pay is what you get with interest. Everyone has a personal account and the pension is fixed by what you contributed. Whereas other pension system is funding unlimited pension payouts with current social security tax.

2. The reason of government borrowing is not to cover CPF payouts. It is more likely that increased taxes are used to do so than from borrowings.

3. Governments are not so concerned by local currency liabilities. Why? because they can just do any of the 2 things to solve the issue: print money or raise taxes. Raise taxes you LL have to pay. Can you say no?

4. Locking up your funds is because dont want you to anyhow spend then no money come out and say government cruel never support old people. Most people are like this. They cant save money one. Let them have 100k they will finish it in 6 months, give it to some young girl and then cry poor.

Anyway CPF only covers the basic retirement expense. Its not enough and you shouldnt depend on it as the only means for retirement.
If you have spare cash, invest it yourself.
Forget CPF as its not something within your control.

No. I don't buy the reasoning behind that.

To your point no.1 i think the fact that there was increase in withdrawal age and min sum dispels the notion that cpf is "your" money. If it is my money then why need to increase withdrawal age and impose min sum?

Point no.2: This can be easily dispelled. Where do you think CPF gets its return from? Tip: The yield don't magically appear. They invest in government securities. You can google it.

Point 3: This has nothing to do with currency exchange rate. To your point about printing money, yes they have been printing money even currently but they can't print huge amounts of it when majority population reaches withdrawal age in the next 15-20 years as that would increase inflation tremendously. Increasing tax isn't glimg to work either as it cost votes and there is only so much the gov can milk out of a 6m population

Point 4: We are educated enough to manage our money. Plus we not living in a communist country where we need to gov to control how we spend our money. Sure there will be the few who spend all their mobey away quickly but are those the small minority not the majority. I mean its not as if with the min sum and increased withdrawal age, the gov will support those that have no money, no? So might as well give us the money and let us manage ourselves.

All in all cpf is more of a tax than a retirement fund because it is run like a ponzi scheme albeit a legal ponzi scheme and once there is fewer contribution than withdrawals the entire scheme will collapse

[fallen11]

Originally Posted by chubbybastard

All in all cpf is more of a tax than a retirement fund because it is run like a ponzi scheme albeit a legal ponzi scheme and once there is fewer contribution than withdrawals the entire scheme will collapse

1. it is not your money till you get it. i dont disagree with that

2. yes but you said they borrowed to pay the CPF payouts. Bascially they use your cpf money to make even more money and pocket the difference. Of course its also the same if they lose money

3. i just gonna say, you will get all your cpf money back. the only question is, what will be the true value of the money you got back.

4. Maybe you can manage your own money. But truth is, tons of people dont. So they spoiler for all of us lor.

once there is fewer contribution than withdrawals the entire scheme will collapse - i dont see how your understanding above gels with this outcome?

[chubbybastard]

Originally Posted by fallen11

1. it is not your money till you get it. i dont disagree with that

2. yes but you said they borrowed to pay the CPF payouts. Bascially they use your cpf money to make even more money and pocket the difference. Of course its also the same if they lose money

3. i just gonna say, you will get all your cpf money back. the only question is, what will be the true value of the money you got back.

4. Maybe you can manage your own money. But truth is, tons of people dont. So they spoiler for all of us lor.

once there is fewer contribution than withdrawals the entire scheme will collapse - i dont see how your understanding above gels with this outcome?

2. They also invest in long term gov securities which cannot be liquidated anytime soon. Which also means they will have no choice but to lock in our money longer by rising withdrawal age

3. Sure we gonna get back our CPF. Question is when? First its 55 yesrs old. Now 67 years old. Next? 70 yesrs old?

4. Then give us an option to manage our own money for those who can and want to

once there is fewer contribution than withdrawals the entire scheme will collapse - there are lesser and lesser birth rates in Singapore and stricter and stricter PR admission rate for foreigners into SG while more and more elderly who are at the withdrawal age. Does not take a rocket scienctist to figure out this legal ponzi scheme cannot work and will collapse.

Btw i'm not saying SG gov is stupid or bad for incepting this CPF ponzi scheme thingy. At the time of inception, situation was different. In the 1960s we are a growing population with many young people and few elderly. In fact population growth in SG was so fast LKY had to come up with the "Stop at 2" campaign to discourage people from having too many children. Dynamics were different back then. Cpf can work. Fast forward today SG gov is begging citizens to have more children due to aging and declining population. Meanwhile importing too many foreigners to make up the numbers are met with disgust from existing population. So gov no choice but to lock up funds for longer as cpf is breaking at its seems

[fallen11]

Originally Posted by chubbybastard

2. They also invest in long term gov securities which cannot be liquidated anytime soon. Which also means they will have no choice but to lock in our money longer by rising withdrawal age

3. Sure we gonna get back our CPF. Question is when? First its 55 yesrs old. Now 67 years old. Next? 70 yesrs old?

4. Then give us an option to manage our own money for those who can and want to

2. Not really. Developed countries govt securities are the most liquid stuff in this world, other than cash of course. Yes even if its 30 years, 50 years, 99 years more to maturity.

3. True. Dont depend on CPF anymore. Besides, its likely insufficient. everyone really needs a supplemental retirement plan outside of CPF.

4. true but how to determine who gets such option? very much easier said than done. Ask you send statements for your past 10 years investment track record as proof? Then those who cant qualify to manage their own CPF money, as usual make noise again say govt dont wanna return them their money

[joshuaienls]

I just want a peaceful and simple retirement. waiting for my grandchildren to visit my house during the holidays. spend boring but relaxing days without working. Therefore, prepare myself with a deposit for living expenses in retirement. and now it's time to be free with the MLs hahaha before retire time too with them hahaha

[qwert]

It seems that in SG it is difficult to retire peacefully. because routines and needs seem to always work. or maybe if have enough to settle in another cheap country. because for employees like me it seems like they have to continue working. and maybe really retire when the body is no longer able to work and live simply