Tieng Viet lovers club

[jackbl]

Coming to Vietnam to be… overcharged
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VietNamNet Bridge – Most of the Vietnamese people think that foreign tourists are all the rich people whom they need overcharge. They also think that the money the foreigners spend in Vietnam is just a small part of the tourists’ big fortunes.


Carriers scramble for clients, overcharge them

Jerry, 41, from the Netherlands, surprised people when he said: “no motorbike, no taxi, no xich lo (pedicab)”. The words half in English and half in Vietnamese made Vietnamese people think. “Why does he know all about that? Is the traffic in Vietnam is terrible?”

However, this was not the reason that made Jerry feel unsatisfactory. The thing that Jerry complained about is the overcharging in Vietnam.

He related that he caught a taxi to go from Hoan Kiem Lake to the President Ho Chi Minh Mausoleum. The taxi driver charged him 300,000 dong for just a short distance. “I feel annoyed when I was cheated,” he said, ending the story.

A taxi driver told VietNamNet’s Vietnam Economic Forum that a colleague of him overcharged a Japanese traveler last week when carrying the traveler from Ton Duc Thanh Street in HCM City to the Tan Son Nhat airport. The Japanese woman burst into tears when she was forced to pay 400 dollars.

“That explains why foreigners think ill of Vietnamese people. We need to settle the problem, or we will lose tourists,” the taxi driver said.

Lili, a VietNamNet’s reader said that she usually witnesses Vietnamese taxi drivers overcharging foreigners. The drivers sometimes take roundabout routes to the destinations, and then overcharge foreign tourists.

“They charged 100 dollars for one hour,” she said. “I really feel ashamed, but I do not know what agency should I contact to ask for help.”

“It would be better if Vietnam sets up a hotline at all big hotels, so that foreigners can make complaints and ask for help,” she suggested.


Vendors also overcharge foreigners

In some areas in Hanoi, which are called the “foreigners’ streets”, such as the west Lake, Hoan Kiem lake or ancient streets, a lot of “moving shops” have been mushrooming which target foreign travelers.

Saeed, a traveler from India, said that last week, he and a Vietnamese friend had to pay 230,000 dong for the taxi service when going from the Literature Temple to the Hoan Kiem Lake. After that, they went to a restaurant on Lo Su Street, where they ate four small crabs and drank two Heineken beer bottles. On leaving, they had to pay one million dong for the meals.

The Indian traveler said that it was so lucky that the Japanese girl agreed to pay 50 percent of the bill, and that he could not imagine what he would do in this case, if the girl had not paid the money.

Not only foreigners, but Vietnamese people also “draw lessons” when they traveling Hanoi. Tranvancuong1974, a reader of VietNamNet, wrote that he and his family, for the first time, went to Hanoi and the Ha Long Bay last Tet holiday. The things he witnessed in the capital city have made him sure that he would never return to Hanoi.

“In Hanoi, the woman seller heaped insults on me when I haggled over a souvenir in the area near the Mausoleum,” he wrote.

“We had to pay 50,000 dong for a bowl of pho, while the Hanoian, who sat next to me, only had to pay 30,000 dong. We had to pay 600,000 dong per kilo for a fish. Though I knew that the fish was just five kilos, the seller still said it weighted 9.8 kilos and we had to pay 5.8 million dong. When we had the cook on the cruise help process the fish, we had to pay 580,000 dong, or 10 percent of the fish’s value. It was terrible,” he wrote.

Ngoc Ha – Nguyen Tai Tien

[jackbl]

Solution for scams in Vung Tau?
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After an article on daylight robbers preying on tourists in Vung Tau, many readers have sent us comments showing their resentment for the ubiquitous scams occurring in the tourist city.

Besides showing sympathy or sharing their experiences of being overcharged, some have given tips and suggestions so that visitors to Vung Tau can prevent themselves from falling victim to greedy sellers’ traps.

“I have four tips to avoid getting ripped-off in Vung Tau.

1. Do not go to restaurants where brokers take you.
2. Avoid places advertised as ‘cheap’ on flyers distributed in the street.
3. Do not eat at places near the beach.
4. Go to restaurants in the city, where there are a lot of customers,” suggested Thanh Son.

To prevent tourists from being lured by brokers and illegal businesses, Phuoc Hai proposes that the city introduce an operator system which gives directions to visitors on where to eat or stay:

“Tourism sectors should announce an operator system where tourists can call a number and retrieve addresses of reliable restaurants and hotels in both Vietnamese and English. This is a win-win situation as tourists can feel safe while picking a place to go while reliable businesses can also advertise themselves.”

Besides tips enabling tourists to avoid scams, the majority of feedback questioned the role of administrators in eliminating untrustworthy businesses in the city.

“After reading the story, I feel sad and ashamed in front of my foreign friends who are working and living in Vietnam. We planned to make a road trip through Vietnam and may stop in Vung Tau. However, my friends have scrapped the plan after reading the article. I wonder why the authorities, i.e the department of market control, department of industry and trade, department of culture, sports and tourism do not get involved in terminating the problem,” shared Truong Van Cuong.

It is crucial that the government and local authorities implement new policies and employ heavier penalties to violators so that the ‘daylight robbers’ will not be tempted to swindle tourists a second time. Reader Duong Van Ngoc analyzes the current situation and suggests a tougher punishment for restaurants:

“This situation has persisted for a long time. Restaurants are willing to pay the fine of a few million dong. If their operation license is taken away, they will use someone else’s name to open a new one. We need to be more determined to resolve the issue. Each restaurant needs to have a certified price range for food and drinks approved by local authorities. When a dispute over price arises, it will be used as proof to judge if that restaurant violates the law. We need heavier penalties on such restaurants and need to close down businesses that have been penalized twice.”

Another Vung Tau reader thinks that penalties should not only applied to dishonest businesses but also governmental officers who do not fulfill their duties.

“I feel ashamed every time I read about rip-offs in Vung Tau. Actually, the problem is the poor management by the authorities of Vung Tau city and Ba Ria-Vung Tau province. Higher levels of the governmental system should take action to improve the situation. For example, discipline a head at a ward’s people committee if the scams persist in his ward. Sack the city’s People Committee head if the problem continues to persist,” he wrote.

Locals have raised their voice and given suggestions for the situation in Vung Tau.. What measures will the authorities take to eliminate the daylight robbery of customers by eateries in Vung Tau and bring tourists back to the beach city? We are looking forward to actions, not just promises.

[jackbl]

My fren got into a fight with a vietnamese gangster while queueing up to buy things

Should we turn the other cheek?
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I attend an evening English class at the Ho Chi Minh City’s University of Technology. The parking lot is always packed with bikes around 6pm.


Bikers have to take their place in a long line and move along inch by inch. When someone jumps the line, you fall back behind and have to wait longer to get into the parking lot.

Strangely enough, both the wrong-doers and the victims, most of whom are students and young white-collar workers, say nothing about what just happened. The guy who just dropped a brick of social faux pas on your toes offers no apology or explanation, and you, his immediate victim, and all the others offer no reaction or protestation. While some people are annoyed, they only pull a wry face or grumble in low voice.

One time, I raised my voice to protest a student who tried to get into the line in front of me but she pretended not to hear anything. Probably she was in a hurry and could not help but cut the line. But she could have at least turned around and apologized to me. But she chose to keep silent.

However, after I had made my voice heard, people stopped jostling and got into the line from behind. This proved that they know their behavior is wrong and are embarrassed to have their incivility exposed in public.

If no one cuts the line, others may feel reluctant to do so. But once some people set a bad example, several will follow.

What lesson have we learned from this experience? It seems to me that young people these days are reluctant to speak up. They do not raise their voice when seeing uncivil acts being committed and instead choose to remain silent. They then go home and complain to their family and friends about the bad public behaviors they see every day.

Do you speak up when seeing someone littering the street? Or do you just throw an irritated stare at them?

In several ways, we are trying to promote a modern and civilized lifestyle. But one simple thing everyone can start doing is to speak up when they witness bad behaviors in public. If one person speaks up, two will speak up and then everyone will speak up.

One day, we can expect that line-cutting and similar bad behaviors in public will become a thing of the past.

[CptCum]

Very informative thread!

thank you TS for the regular update

you got another follower for this thread!!!

[jackbl]

Originally Posted by CptCum

Very informative thread!

thank you TS for the regular update

TS has been MIA dunno for how long liao

[jackbl]

Ripping off tourists: Where are the business ethics?
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Ripping off tourists in restaurants in Vung Tau or Ha Long is not only an act that damages the image potential tourist destinations, but also raises a question: Have business ethics been degraded?

The fact that tourists are getting scammed during their trips is no longer something new. Hawkers asking tourists with insistence, forcing them to buy goods at high prices and even mugging them can be spotted every day in many different places. In an era where money talks, are business ethics losing their value?

Talking to vendors at tourist destinations, I found their way of thinking very shallow. They perceive tourists as rich people who visit these places once for a while and it is okay to overcharge them “a little”. This is probably also the perception of some owners at restaurants recently featured by local newspapers.

Obviously, they only see the instant gain rather than potential benefits in long term. Many travelers have raised their voices, complained on websites about being ripped off and vowed that they would never come back or that they would be more careful purchasing anything there.

In the age of the internet, these boycott messages are spread quickly. Restaurants will lose customers and more seriously, the country may become less attractive in the eyes of foreign tourists.

The Vietnamese style of doing business has placed an importance on ethics for a long time. Business people use their words and credit to make customers feel secure in choosing products or services. The real revenue is the increasing number of customers, rather than the illegal gain from ripping off a few who will never return.

I hope those who are robbing customers rather than doing real business will think twice. Don’t just concentrate on gaining instant money at the cost of losing the long term benefits and affecting the country’s friendly image for foreign travelers.

[volcano]

Originally Posted by jackbl

TS has been MIA dunno for how long liao

u r the "jie ban ren" mah.....

phai ko....

[KangTuo]

Originally Posted by jackbl

TS has been MIA dunno for how long liao

i tot TS reappeared and is very very active in certain lorong in GL

[jackbl]

Originally Posted by KangTuo

i tot TS reappeared and is very very active in certain lorong in GL

He said he has banned that lorong. Unless he XNN. Or maybe he already finish learning all the XNN skill from the VBs, that's why he no need to go there anymore.

[KangTuo]

Originally Posted by jackbl

He said he has banned that lorong. Unless he XNN. Or maybe he already finish learning all the XNN skill from the VBs, that's why he no need to go there anymore.

i mean he active in the standing lorong not the sitting lorong

[ilovedoggie]

Originally Posted by KangTuo

i mean he active in the standing lorong not the sitting lorong

nowadays lots of grey area between standing lorong and sitting lorong

again... jack kor was said to be bo lic again.

[jackbl]

Learning to make punctuality a habit
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TUOITRENEWS: After an opinion article on the Vietnamese bad habit of coming late by Max Murta, several local readers have responded with their own stories and experiences of this issue.

“It’s embarrassing to come early”
I am a member of a sports club. One time, we were sent an invitation to a birthday party starting at 5pm.

When I arrived at 4.45pm at the rendezvous from which we would depart together, I was surprised to find half of the members still playing sports. They didn’t seem to be in a hurry, although the party would be starting soon.

When I asked why they were still playing, I heard this reply: “The invitation says 5pm but the party actually starts at 6pm”. Someone started to go home to take a shower and asked us to wait for them to come back. In spite of this, some members and I decided to go to the party immediately instead of waiting.

What I found surprising is some people were ready for the party and had to wait for the late ones. The excuse was that it is embarrassing to arrive early and it is better to go in a group.

I do not know why they feel the need to be embarrassed and how we can condone such a wrong perception. I hope we can find a way to eliminate this idea of “rubber time” from our culture.

Ngoc Diep


“Better to make someone wait for you than for you to wait for them”
Sometimes, my friends who came late joke, “Why do I need to come early and wait for others? They need to wait for me!” It has showed that unpunctuality originates from some people’s large egos and lack of consideration for others. . That is why event organizers have had to change their schedules as a way of adapting to the habits of those who do not respect time.

This small bad habit has become a negative trait of the Vietnamese in foreigners’ eyes. I think we need to change gradually, starting with event organizers. You can include a sentence like “Please do not come late” and carry out the program as scheduled. By doing that, those who do not arrive on time will feel left out of a community comprised of people with higher awareness.

Men Oanh

People coming late should be looked down on
I don’t know when “rubber time” became a part of Vietnamese culture.

Since childhood, I was taught to be on time and usually try to come 10-15 minutes early. Many times, I was the first one to show up. People have various reasons for coming late: taking their children to school, traffic jams. However, behind those excuses is the basic bad habit: a disrespect of time.

For example, one of my colleagues lives next door to me, so our company is just a few hundred meters away. However, he has hardly arrived at the office on time since when I leave for work, he is still watching TV! So whose fault is it?

At my office, those coming late to work will be made fun of, or even receive punishment for making the whole team wait. When we go on fieldtrips, especially, we always depart on time. Those who are not punctual will need to catch a taxi or go home. We do not wait if there is no sound reason or advance notification.

Thus, we need to teach ourselves the culture of punctuality, in order to be civilized and to build a modern country.

Huynh Van Binh

[jackbl]

Originally Posted by ilovedoggie

again... jack kor was said to be bo lic again.

Is that new vietnamese words??? Can enlighten me?

[jackbl]

Caddies' hard work on golf course
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Born in poor families, most young girls working as caddies on golf courses in Vietnam have experienced or witnessed verbal abuse and unfriendly attitudes from the successful and wealthy entrepreneurs playing there.

Receiving a well-behaved customer is lucky., If they don’t, the caddies have to hold back their tears to be able to continue their work and earn tips from customers, a necessary part of their income, as their salary for a 5-hour working day of 5-10km walking is no more than VND70,000 (US$3.3).

Obeying the slogan, ‘the customer is always right’, caddies have to bear unprovoked insults whenever a player misses his stroke, especially during a game of betting.

Two of Tuoi Tre’s female journalists have recorded their two months disguised as caddies – a time full of both fun and tears.

Recruitment

On a November morning last year, 20 young girls from Hanoi and neighboring provinces came to the HP golf course in the northern province of Hoa Binh for a recruitment contest.

One contestant told another standing close-by, “hey, you are tall and seem OK here, but why don’t you wear sexier clothes? The experienced have told me a contestant should have careful make up, wear high heels, and more exposing clothing to be recruited.”

Actually, many girls looked sufficiently exposed, with thin clothes in the cold morning of the wintery day.

After walking in front of the judges and introducing themselves, more than ten girls were eliminated, while those with lovely appearances and suitable heights were admitted for a training course lasting around a month and a half.

At the BS golf course in the southern province Binh Duong, recruitment was more difficult as contestants were required to possess English skills.

Not only pushing a stroller to carry the different golf clubs a player needs, a caddie must also learn the terrain of the course to inform players of the locations of hills, lakes and shrubs as well as distances between holes. In addition, a caddie must pay attention to wind direction and being able to predict the trajectory of the ball for the player.
Also, the caddie acts as a coach for beginners on the course.

Hard work

To host a player at the BS golf course, with each round of 18 holes, a caddie has to walk pushing the stroller for around ten kilometers in 4-5 hours.

On their first working days, a novice caddie serves managers of the golf course and is always given a warning when she is left far behind players.

“Hurry up! Quickly! Try to do more exercise. How can you assist a customer with your slow pace?” a manager urged a novice, who always wears a white shirt. Well-trained caddies wear course uniforms.

On training days, a novice is often not called by their name but referred to as ‘white shirt’. “Hey, white shirt, bring drinking water’, “white shirt, come here’, and ‘go quickly white shirt’ are commands from managers and other experienced caddies.

Most caddie novices run pushing their carts to catch up with players. Sweat pours from their heated-up bodies from hard labor on a cold morning.

A day of a novice begins as early as 5:00 in the morning when the darkness of the night has not yet withdrawn and the moon still hangs in the west.

On completing a round of 18 holes, players enter the restaurant while caddies push their carts to wait for when they can have the fast food and drink they bring from home.

If being rated ‘good’ after a month of working as a novice, a caddie will be given a uniform for an official start and salary is only counted from that date.

After two months of training and working as novice, the 40 new caddie recruits usually dwindles to 2-3 caddies who overcome the initial hardship of the job. Challenges await them ahead as they serve hot tempered customers.

The gap of caddie as ‘employee’ and player as ‘employer’ will clearly turn up soon.

[jackbl]

Caddies' tears on golf course
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On the first working day as an official caddy, a disguised journalist of Tuoi Tre was almost dismissed by her client, a Vietnamese player, after he missed his several of his strokes.

“He is angry, saying that your astrological sign is at odds with his and that’s why he couldn’t make any good shots today. I ask for his sympathy because you would be fired if rejected by a customer on your first day at work,” said the caddy working with me on the same shift.

Insults can pour down like rain

As they stand in line at the starting area, waiting to receive their clients, each caddy was filled with nevousness and anxiety. It is not uncommon for them to be assigned to serve clients, mostly Vietnamese men, who are hot-tempered or even rude, treating them like servants.

Some regular customers at the course have a reputation for changing caddies many times when he fails to make a good performance on the golf course. At such moments, they vent all their anger on the caddies, blaming them for everything. Some men even curse at their caddies, spit, or throw their clubs on the ground for the caddies to pick up.

The caddies’ nerves were strained to the breaking point when they had to serve such men.

Staying alert and paying close attention to the game is the secret to cope with these nerve-wracking situations, according to an experienced caddy. Pulling the stroller after the player, the caddy must always calculate the distance from the ball to the coming hole and be ready to give the player the information when he asks.

Keeping silent and taking all the blames poured on their heads, no matter how absurd or unreasonable they are, also helps to keep the lid of anger on and prevent an explosion.

In standing close to a player to quickly swap him a new club, some caddies also gets blamed by the player for a missed stroke, said a caddy.

Their anger, rudeness and insults become worse when Vietnamese golfers play for money. Some caddies try to psych themselves up before these betting games with the thought of a large tip from the winner and loser afterwards.

A caddy named Hong recalled, “Once, one of my clients is just 30 meters from the flag [that marks a hole], his stroke was too strong and the ball passed the hole, rolling down a hill.”

He got mad at the caddy and swore at her, “F***, why don’t you tell me about the hill beyond the flag?”

Some men even cheat by kicking the ball to another location when it lands between two tree trunks, making it impossible for them to hit it.

When a player starts accusing his rival of cheating, the caddy gets caught in the line of crossfire between them and finds it impossible to satisfy them both.

A caddy named Ha working on the HP golf course in the northern province of Hoa Binh was very bitter about this. “With money, some men want to see their attendants suffer to make it worth their expenses. Some treat the caddies on the golf course no less than they do their servants at home and show no respect for them.

“Working as a caddy, you have to accept it all,” Ha added.


Tears on golf course

Verbal abuse is not always the caddies’ biggest worry as some of them are exposed to accidents without getting any insurance coverage from the golf course owner.

A stray golf ball can give a caddy a broken nose, a black eye or any heavy bruises on other parts of the faces and bodies.

Golf course owners normally have no obligations towards the caddies working for them. They sign no contract with them and pay them no social insurance, except VND70,000 (US$3.3) a day plus tips from players.

Apart from the customers’ anger and insults and their occupational hazards on the golf course, a caddy also has to deal with possible punishment from managers if their clients report displeasure over their service.

Caddies will be fined if they they don’t pick up rubbish the customers throw on the field or if their customers lose some piece of gear. In some golf courses, caddies are fined if they don’t turn off the lights and fans after clients use them.

The worst punishment for caddies is to be taken off their caddy duties and assigned to removing weeds for a month on the golf course, depriving them of their major source of income -- the tips.

Love and money

Many nice-looking caddies have fallen into the money-for-love trap set by wealthy golf players and none of them end in marriage.

A caddy named H in the MP golf course has been known for her love affair with a South Korean man who is a regular golfer at the site.

On the golf course, the Korean man is seen pushing the stroller and walking by his side is H holding his purse.

The Korean man didn’t hide from H the fact that he was married. In return, he gave her generous gifts and money.

Another golf player from Japan spent billions dong to buy Tram, his caddy and girlfriend, a big house in Thu Dau Mot Town in the southern Binh Duong Province. Their relationship lasted for a year before the Japanese returned home, leaving no contact address behind.