woes of a tirak

[free]

Originally Posted by thaivisitor

Just wondering where your realistic perspective comes from.... You did a survey on the income levels of fresh graduates in Thailand?

Also, could you kindly highlight which are the universities which are considered "rural" and which are not? as I didn't know that they grade them in such a way and sure won't want my kids to be in a "rural" university if there ever was one.

I don't know much about the "average income" of fresh graduates. All I know is that I employed 3 of them, each with a starting salary of 12,000 Baht. They are with me for 2 years over, and they now received 15,000 Baht.

Wow!!!! How long is "then" til this day? You mean to say they can last so long without a job? By the way, how many graduates do you know? I hope not too many as with the millions of graduates all having jobs, those in contact with you don't. You're bad luck to them or what?

Either you have over or rather under-exerrated the situation, or your scope of work and income of grads in Thailand, is as limited as the people you mixed with there.

Whose fault is it if a fresh grad decides to stay in the village where everyone is a farmer and then complain to say that he/she cannot get a decent job? Whose fault is it if they decides to go to Lumphun where there isn't even a tourist hotel and earn 4,000 to 6,000 Baht when others go to Bangkok where there are hundreds of hotels and got themselves jobs earning 12,000 to 15,000 Baht? Whose fault is it when vocational college grads decides to work in departmental stores for 4,000 Baht when even my uneducated storeman earns 8,000 Baht and my maid in my office earns 6,000 Baht?

I know of a secretary who earns 30,000 Baht after changing jobs for 4 times within 4 years. Why? Because, she bothers to keep looking out for better opportunities.

The point is, either the people you know are much too lazy to better their lives, or they better start mixing with luckier people.... like me or bro singrakthai.

Again, whose fault is that? If I cannot support 3 kids, I'll make sure that I have only 2 kids. If I cannot support 2 kids, I'll make sure that I have only 1 kid. If I cannot support 1 kid, I'll make sure that I don't have kids. If I cannot support my wife, I'll make sure that I don't marry her. What is there for us to understand the burden she carries as the eldest daughter? Why must we understand the burden that she carries? How come you don't ask us to understand the burden that the parents carries? Or ask the parents to understand the burden that their daughter is carrying?

You felt the strain? Just because you've seen a few cases? Because you tried to help them a bit? Cheeez...Reminds me of the situation in a movie where someone goes over to a person who have just lost his whole family and says " I understand how you feel" and was fucked by the person. left, right and centre because no matter what, being a third party, you can never feel what they feel.

Yes, please provide more correct details and not views that represents only a minority, thus painting the picture that all is not well in Thailand.

By the way, does all this has anything to do with the woes of a tirak?

Cheers
thaivisitor

I need not say much, You must be a very generous employer, paying better than the MNCs who come to LOS to set up plants for what! To make money lah. I don't know thousands of grads and I don't think you do either. You hired 3, I dun claim to know many, but let's say its much more. And please dun think I know only those in CR. Surely you live a comfortable life there, and not many can hold a candle to you.

I know of lazy ppl, and I also know ppl who work 2 jobs to make ends meet. I am speaking from my experience and I do not claim that I know everything, I am only saying when someone quotes 12,000 as the average grad's pay, it does not commensurate with the salaries of my grad friends who has been working for some years - from Koh Samui to Phuket, from BKK to Undonthani, to Kohn Kaen, from Lampang to Lampun, not forgetting CM and CR too. But I also wondered why do you get so upset? Unless perhaps those numbers come from ......

How long have some of my friends been searching for jobs while holding something they hope to be just temp work to tide them over? Lets say a couple of months.

As for whether I can understand/empathize with another in feeling the strain, I am sorry it is not for you to say, First you are not me and you do not know what I know, nor do you feel what I feel. And you dun even know what I had in mind. I did not claim to understand all cases, only those I know and am close to. And to some extend even help to beaar some load.

How do you know I do not understand what the parents are feeling? How do you know if the parents understand what burden their child is carrying? Do read carefully and dun jump to conclusions, for I am sure u can do better. I am asking questions for us to think about and consider, yes based on the several cases I see and experienced for myself. Want to know reality? Well I am presenting the small portion that I see. I have never tried to present my case studies as Majority. And due to the context of this post. there was no need to talk about those who found good jobs with good pay. How to write everything down? I never said they don't exist.

If it bugs u that much, why dun u present those majority of cases that you know and better still personally encountered. After all, u live there - u can definitely present a wider perspective. Simply "attacking" what I presented (as per what I personally encountered) dun help anybody, and I dun think you are doing it simply to boost yr ego, right? Dun think you need that!

You seemed to enjoy telling ppl what to do, right down to how many kids they ought to have, if they should even get married. And maybe to do it ur way? That is your perogative. I am not in postion to tell these parents what to do. They are already married and had their kids when I knew them. Nothing I say will ever make a difference.

Has this got to do with the woes of the tirak, yes it does. It helps to put in perspective that for every one WL/FL who had a choice (given her education and opportunities available to her to earn a decent pay with decent job), there are many others who had no choice given the burden they feel that had to bear - parents, sibilings and kids even. Perhaps they had a choice - it is called a Hobson;s choice; iof they feel for the sinlings and parents and realised there is something they, with their limited capabilities could do. Whether their logic is correct or not (morally or otherwise), is not for me nor you to say.

I have had the opportunity to "pump" my stomach full with tap water during school recess (as a growing child) cos I had no money to buy food for a large portion of my primary school days cos my parents were not making enough. Was my dad lazy and bad? Heck no. He does not drink, gamble nor cheong. Nor does he have the luxury of taking MCs or vacation. He only rested one day a year on CNY day. Perhaps I can feel more cos of what I went thru.

Painting a picture that all is not well in LOS? That is the last thing I would do. If anything I think the economic atmosphere is more exciting then here and I want to be part of it. And hopefully contribute economically and not just live off the land.

[free]

Originally Posted by singrakthai

ya lah.. some companies pay more, some less.. like Sony here paying dunno 16,000 or 18,000 start for fresh grad engineers according to my friend. Delta also offering very good bonus package ... so for Uncle free, maybe u can ask ur friends go try lah... i only slightly mentioned "fresh grad avg pay is 12,000baht".. dunno why u bother go write so long essay.... i read untill i blur... but... still very entertaining.. haha.. cannot stop but keeps replying.. si bei ge yen... haha
abit side track from track laew hor?! Dunno this pay thing got anything to do with any woes of any "tiraks" or not.. haha.. but for me this also a woe cos back in s'pore, i don't have to worry about taking care of my s'pore gf.. but for Thai gf here... knn, their pay so little, i also pai say to take their money when they offer dutch... so this is my woe just to stick back to thread.
cheers

You are talking about engineers. Just what percentage of the yearly batch of grads are engineers? If you had said average starting pay of engineers, it would have been a huge difference. Try looking at the average pay of the accounts grads the business Admin grads, etc. And a good number of Unis cater to the masses, not the cream of the crop

Then take a reasonable guessimate of these ordinaru grads and consider the those with little or no education and we get a better picture why some of them became FLs/WLs. Not all have real feasible choices, much as we like to think they do.

Those cute gals at 7/11 that I often talked to, some make 3k-4k, same as many store helpers along the streets. I had the opportunity to consider hiring a shop assistant for 3k baht. Not much to live on, really.

[free]

Originally Posted by singrakthai

Uncle free... *sigh* i respect u for ur command in phasa thai... so i really don't wanna argue much.... *sigh again* i'm working here right now in Thailand... I say 12,000baht avg for fresh grad... yes, actually i know some pay lesser.. yes, i know alot of grads still cannot find job... *sigh sigh* uncle free.... pls lah... u very long winded.. i don't know why u wanna argue with me about this? ok ok.. my company here got 1 position for lady sales lah.. u ask ur whoever friends who're jobless or below 12,000baht to come interview lah.. PM me her contacts lah... aiyo.... but pls hor.. she must be able to speak english lah.. and if she got car and can drive, our company pay car allowance, yearly maintenance and also handphone allowance lah... aiyo, quick lah..PM me her contact i help her lah... *sigh* I will personally guarantee she get 12,000 baht start after 3 months probation lah! shuay mai krup?
ps. i got short attention spand.. pls keep ur "essays" short.

Haha, u looking for a grad with a car even? Sorry most of my friends are too poor to be in this class. We are only simple folks with simple dreams. But we are still happy.

[suteerak1099]

Originally Posted by singrakthai

*sigh* now i think about it.. u remind me of those "AIR LEVEL" people in my army times.... i ask u apple, u reply orange..
i say "whores job is different from NORMAL jobs like flight attendents, customer services, etc etc" u say I look down on WL/FL....
i say "will u smile and agree if someone says ur daughter who're working a normal job is no different than a whore" u talk about what crime rates lah.. wat kiss pussies lah... aiyo, u really are trying very hard to please the WL/FL leh.. what big heart lah.. what noble lah.. what keep sex crimes down lah.. aiyo..

i give up.. ok lah u win lah.. u go become pa pa san for them better....

peace out.

SRT, paiseh hor.. me not air level.. limpeh is poly trained wan. all i'm asking is for the readers here to adopt wider view of things. already knn maciam frog in well, see things in confined perspective, yet happily croaking away n claim that the well is a good place to dwell. we all exist to make the society a balanced place - very much so like the food chain as learnt in primary school. so dont go looking high/low at others.

in all my yrs of cheonging, i've experienced enough to flood the international flesh trade column also, bt i reckon its senseless to post that sorta FR. compared to all those WL/FL on foreign turf...wanna compare the agendas/hidden autobiography of the gals. TG working in GL n in their places of "sexual" interest (back in LOS) r by far doing it out of fillial piety...integrity to family beyond self. materialism is only a small objective, in any given case - secondary or tertiary issues in their priorities. (the sacrifice is for a greater love & a greater cause)

nothing i post here can change the way u choose to see things, nonetheless...i'm not advocating that all tiraks here r guaranteed 'happily ever-after' tirakships/marriages. figuratively speaking, the fundamentals in rship applies across the board-regardless wat nationality ur spouse-to-be may be, gals will be gals. if the man dunno hw to be the man... be it rship or tirakship... (mark my words) its doomed for failure.

[suteerak1099]

Originally Posted by thaivisitor

Bro, there's no finger-pointing here and nobody will say that this thread is going the wrong way or whatever.

Like I said, I'll put my 2 cents worth whenever I feel it is OK for me to do so and I would like to "catch" the correct timing to go along in line with what you have in mind for this thread.

Cheers
thaivisitor

TV, not to worry, i never claimed the thread was going out of point, nor was i concerned about finger-pointing issues (even if there was), and rest assured, i'm appreciative of ur neutral perspectives.

its just unfortunate that many posts here have tendency to be-little the WLs/FLs/TGs which can be quite a disturbing issue. i dont see any reason or rationale for us sad fucks to be so pompous n biased against a trade that we subscribe to, much less to say... many even condemn the sorry souls who've resigned to their unfortunate fate, in hope to provide/support their families, in that the family members/siblings may become better equipped n realize their dreams in the next lap.

some say its senseless for anyone to be working in this insulting job for a quick solution. then i say its just as sad for our fellow singaporeans to be queueing religiously at singaporepools to place their miserable bets (hoping for a quick solution). WLs work for that solution, betting punters invest in hopeless resolutions. should the amount of cummulative bets be set aside for biz/investments, top it up w a lil more effort n positive attitude...many would've hit jackpot already. or if not, for a greater cause, that $ could've gone into financing n creating/upgrading a 3rd world society - so some1 mentioned in the recent posts.

it dawned upon me that alota failed tirakships r very much due to their failure to see the bigger pic, henceforth the eyes r only keen on picking out the minute flaws in the gals. experience some minor glitch n friction, cry-babies start crying foul-play, feel sore, give up on the gal n start flaming. that being the case, which substantiated my post about the "fish pond" post somedays back.

i dun see the need in spelling everything out clearly n spoon feeding to the rest.

TV, u're probably experienced enough to profess as a marriage councellor ya? chip in if u must.. a lil 2cts here n there will go a long long way. kudos!

[suteerak1099]

Originally Posted by free

You are talking about engineers. Just what percentage of the yearly batch of grads are engineers? If you had said average starting pay of engineers, it would have been a huge difference. Try looking at the average pay of the accounts grads the business Admin grads, etc. And a good number of Unis cater to the masses, not the cream of the crop

Then take a reasonable guessimate of these ordinaru grads and consider the those with little or no education and we get a better picture why some of them became FLs/WLs. Not all have real feasible choices, much as we like to think they do.

Those cute gals at 7/11 that I often talked to, some make 3k-4k, same as many store helpers along the streets. I had the opportunity to consider hiring a shop assistant for 3k baht. Not much to live on, really.

free, i think many here w the priviledge of being stationed in Thailand r very much still seeing things in the metropolitan/cosmopolitan perspectives. they've yet to see wat it really is like in the rural regions. perhaps the idea of rice planting is maciam hi-tech hydroponic industries... when in fact, its still the bloody hard manual labor that gives us the rice we pay so cheaply for our meals.

damn jialat.. ppl taking things for granted, not appreciative...yet still can turn around n look down on those who suffer for a greater cause. sigh..

[singrakthai]

Originally Posted by free

You are talking about engineers. Just what percentage of the yearly batch of grads are engineers? If you had said average starting pay of engineers, it would have been a huge difference. Try looking at the average pay of the accounts grads the business Admin grads, etc. Then take a reasonable guessimate of these ordinaru grads and consider the those with little or no education and we get a better picture why some of them became FLs/WLs. Not all have real feasible choices, much as we like to think they do.
Those cute gals at 7/11 that I often talked to, some make 3k-4k, same as many store helpers along the streets. I had the opportunity to consider hiring a shop assistant for 3k baht.

*sigh* Uncle free ah Uncle free... ok ok.. my fault.. I should say Average Pay for Engineers is 12,000... aiyo.. u very ge yen... ppl like TV and me working here, staying here now say this, u don't agree still wanna argue. Just for ur info, acc fresh U grads also getting range from 8k - 15k lah... see? The gap so huge, thats why i say AVERAGE lah... *sigh* u probably will bring out "ur friends" for examples again... ok ok u wanna show the world u know alot about Thailand and u got alot of Thai friends and u can speak, read and write Thai very well.. up to u lah.. no need write so long essays... phoot throng throng dai mai krup? No need use colorful english.

Also, my offer for the position still stands lah... ur friend no car but can speak english also can try lah. Eh.. no need SUPER good english ok? aiyo, but no need tell me "sorry my friends are simple people, english no good" or stuffs like that ok? Interested, u PM me lah..

See lah.. u make me side track for this thread already lah! Lets talk about woes of so-called "tiraks" lah.... or u open another thread somewhere titled "woes of Khon Thai" and i'll go join u there lah...

cheers

[singrakthai]

Originally Posted by suteerak1099

SRT, paiseh hor.. me not air level.. limpeh is poly trained wan. all i'm asking is for the readers here to adopt wider view of things. already knn maciam frog in well, see things in confined perspective, yet happily croaking away n claim that the well is a good place to dwell. we all exist to make the society a balanced place -

TG working in GL n in their places of "sexual" interest (back in LOS) r by far doing it out of fillial piety...integrity to family beyond self. materialism is only a small objective, in any given case - secondary or tertiary issues in their priorities. (the sacrifice is for a greater love & a greater cause)

*sigh* Poly trained where got speak english like u wan?! Please don't say u from SP leh.. make me pai say... u also use very colorful english like Uncle free leh... seriously, at least Uncle free can speak Thai well but... how ur so call Thai friends can understand ur english?!!!

And Mr Suteerak.. i'm not picking on u leh... pls help me point out which part of ALL my postings did i ever say i look down on WL/FL?? Aiyo... how many times must i make myself clear? I raised my opinion only because u compare WL/FL jobs to normal jobs lah... boey tahan.. a whore is a whore.. a flight attendant is a flight attendant lah.

I think huh.. Mr Suteerak.. i read the very very first post of ur thread.. at first u very humble and can even take criticism when someone jokes that u don't even understand the word "tirak" and somemore wanna use a Thai nick.. u still "hum hum" reply and apologise.. now u start using wat "limbei" lah.. what "frog in the well" lah.. then all arguments must win wan... pls lah.. who is frog in well lah? who is living a good life and no chance to go rural area lah? Aiyo... u don't know me, i don't know u.. u don't know where i stay, u don't know what i do and u don't know the people i meet here lah.. i stay where, u stay where? Who got better position to comment about living in Thailand leh? Aiyo.... boey tahan....

peace out lah... long time never use so many "lah" already...

[suteerak1099]

Originally Posted by siamcutey

Agree. All I can say is that 2 months ago the thread started by suteerak and 2 months now, I can see that suteerak is threading on a dangerous thin line with his kind of perspectives.


SC

seeing things in a broader perspective dont neceessarily mean i'm performing balancing act on tight rope, nor am i walking through mine-fields. i admit there's only so little that i can do to give my tirak better times, not extravagance bt definately not anything remotely near the earlier stages in life. her appreciation is already sufficient to spell CONTENT within me.

aspiration for better hopes n brighter future is definately in my agenda, n if God-willing, i'd be glad to share it w her n her entire household when the time comes. nothing wrong in being compassionate, nothing wrong in being magnanimous... that being the case... danger & risk is nothing but a small issue to be dealt with. (he who laughs last... laughs best)

i dont expect ppl to applaud my efforts cos my love & compassion is for those who appreciate to experience... definately not some charity fund raising comedy where celebrities shed tears, n selfish ppl suddenly become so selfless/generous to donate that miserable amount to finance organizations that may misappropriate the funds.

*just a gentle note - if wanna do good/charitable deeds (be it out of love/good-will/sympathy/redeem sins etc) go and give directly to the beneficiaree...no need to spell out the amount in the cheque so the world can or-loh u

back to issue on tirakship:
love is unconditional, if expectations is put in the equation... then anything/everything ongoing in the rship/tirakship is no different from a transaction/barter trading. will there ever be an embargo? its up to the genuine hearts to make that call.

do not be afraid to love/give, bcos where there's love... u'd find that joy in giving. if there's no expectations in the equation...when she gives in return, it shall be something priceless-not even the world can replace.

[free]

Originally Posted by OceanEleven

Please can someone step forward and oppose this case, I have heard stories about such as cases and the most recent one being on a M'sia girl. Who am I to judge them if they had made the right move? Sacrificing herself but for the better of 3 or more family members, can we call them noble or plain stupidity.

Since they had enter this trade, then I guess it is normal to go all out to make the most money within the shortest time, whatever way they choose, we can only decide to accept to stay away from. If you walk away, there will be a next one in the queue and mind you, the next one had already his fair share of warnings and stories abot WLs/FLs but yet he eagarly join the queue with pockets full of cash and heart full of love and expectation. So what can we say, he knew fire burns but yet play with it.

Bro Ocean,
haha, u indeed opened a can of worms. Obviously some ppl dun read full sentences these days. "can someone step forward and oppose this case" becomes "can someone step forward and oppose" so they heroiclly answered the call of duty w/o even understanding the purpose of the article they are opposing. Really they are simply opposing the writer, not the holistic objectives of the author. As a matter of fact, the very intent of your post above is probably lost. Only the words highlighted in black here was read (but perhaps not understood), and not for the 1st time too.

When one does a paragraph by paragraph attempt to "analyse" things, one often loses the objective of the whole, and dun differentiate the trees from the forest. Often the whole is greater than sum of the parts. Wonder how many will understand that.

[hoodlum]

Originally Posted by singrakthai

*sigh* now i think about it.. u remind me of those "AIR LEVEL" people in my army times.... i ask u apple, u reply orange..
i say "whores job is different from NORMAL jobs like flight attendents, customer services, etc etc" u say I look down on WL/FL....
i say "will u smile and agree if someone says ur daughter who're working a normal job is no different than a whore" u talk about what crime rates lah.. wat kiss pussies lah... aiyo, u really are trying very hard to please the WL/FL leh.. what big heart lah.. what noble lah.. what keep sex crimes down lah.. aiyo..

i give up.. ok lah u win lah.. u go become pa pa san for them better....

peace out.

Haizzz

Relax lah. Don't think the essays will get any shorter. Remember the good old army days to ward off enemy: signal left but turn right. keke

hoodlum

[hoodlum]

Originally Posted by thaivisitor

Allow me to intervente here a bit.

Both of you are not wrong in your perspectives. The problem is that both of you are on different channels and frequency whether deliberately or not, I leave it to you guys.

All human beings are the same... and yet everyone is a unique individual thus also making us different.

So unless, you both can agree to view the situation in each other's perpective, no point carrying on your discussion as I sense that it may become unpleasant soon, and will spoil the thread.

My 2 cents worth.

Cheers
thaivisitor

Agree and that's why I mentioned in my earlier post that there has to be a context for discussion/debate. And not only that, there are some points that both sides need to agree to.

1. no using of abusive language or unnessary name calling, 'numbskull' for instance by the treadstarter on Singrathai

2. Don't generalised lah;
'idiots by the Singapore education...', 'lumping service jobs as no different from WL', 'all womanfolks are whores' and more

Especially for point 2, the treadstarter has a tendency of deviating and making porous sweeping generalisations that often don't add value to his tread objectives but further alienate readers/posters from such baseless swipes.


Let's have a healthy exchange of perspectives
hoodlum

[suteerak1099]

Originally Posted by singrakthai

*sigh* Poly trained where got speak english like u wan?! Please don't say u from SP leh.. make me pai say... u also use very colorful english like Uncle free leh... seriously, at least Uncle free can speak Thai well but... how ur so call Thai friends can understand ur english?!!!

.. i'm not picking on u leh... pls help me point out which part of ALL my postings did i ever say i look down on WL/FL?? Aiyo... how many times must i make myself clear? I raised my opinion only because u compare WL/FL jobs to normal jobs lah... boey tahan.. a whore is a whore.. a flight attendant is a flight attendant lah...

bro, doesnt mean that better command of english determines one's educational level/calibre. language can be improved just as a new languages can be acquired if the effort is invested. no, my pasa-thai is not the least as kheng as free, bt yes i'm still working on it. no need to boast how many written thai letters i've painstakingly composed for my gal, bt its good progress... i'm sure of it.

u still cant make out the difference of wat i meant in mentioning the term "in principles", so there's no pt in me trying to teach or better ur english here. FYI, my thai frens can understand my level of english n r eager/humble learners unlike some here who think they know bt dont know.

*SRT: no i havent taken any of yr comments personally. u're just as entitled to ur opinions, just as any of us here. reason y it seems my posts r argumentative is particularly bcos, many correspondent posts here display pompous atttitutes and be-littling of the unfortunate ones who dont deserve it. hope this helps to clear the air for u...

how the contents have somehow veered towards the culture/background/plight of the WLs/FLs is with intent that the aspiring tiraks here must 1st come to terms with. cos they can claim they love this WL/TG/FL/ka-toey, can forget their past in the flesh trade etc... without even realising that its a whole different world over there. some back out due to culture shock, many unprepared for their level of comforts (which in some cases to us... is living hell).

at this pt, i shall apologize if i've created unnecessary woes on top of the existing woes for those in the tirakship. bt the truth always hurts, n its all important for us all to see/realize wat lies ahead, instead of just popping champagnes, getting drunk before the banquet has even started.

[zunbo]

Wah.... now all the essay are getting longer and longer........

[suteerak1099]

Originally Posted by free

Bro Ocean,
haha, u indeed opened a can of worms. Obviously some ppl dun read full sentences these days. "can someone step forward and oppose this case" becomes "can someone step forward and oppose" so they heroiclly answered the call of duty w/o even understanding the purpose of the article they are opposing. Really they are simply opposing the writer, not the holistic objectives of the author. As a matter of fact, the very intent of your post above is probably lost. Only the words highlighted in black here was read (but perhaps not understood), and not for the 1st time too.

When one does a paragraph by paragraph attempt to "analyse" things, one often loses the objective of the whole, and dun differentiate the trees from the forest. Often the whole is greater than sum of the parts. Wonder how many will understand that.

which brings about the pt y i mentioned

Originally Posted by suteerak1099

I dunno wat kind of idiots have our singaporean education raised in the recent decades.

either too spoon fed n reliant on teacher's instruction to highlight the lines, or just cant comprehend at all. sigh.. detiorating analytical skills. i really fear for the future of our country.. reminds me so much of the "tortoise & hare" story - over confidence & complacency..